The flap over 'offshoring'

Townhall.com ^ | February 19, 2004 | George Will

[beaureguard]

WASHINGTON -- It is difficult to say something perfectly, precisely false. But Speaker Dennis Hastert did when participating in the bipartisan piling-on against the president's economic adviser who imprudently said something sensible.

John Kerry and John Edwards, who are not speaking under oath and who know that economic illiteracy has never been a disqualification for high office, have led the scrum against the chairman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, N. Gregory Mankiw, who said the arguments for free trade apply to trade in services as well as manufactured goods. But the prize for the pithiest nonsense went to Hastert: ``An economy suffers when jobs disappear."

So the economy suffered when automobiles caused the disappearance of the jobs of most blacksmiths, buggy makers, operators of livery stables, etc.? The economy did not seem to be suffering in 1999, when 33 million jobs were wiped out -- by an economic dynamism that created 35.7 million jobs. How many of the 4,500 U.S jobs that IBM is planning to create this year will be made possible by sending 3,000 jobs overseas?

[CSM]

To be honest with you I didn't bother linking to the sites provided. However, we should all recognize that both sides could bombard each other with "facts" and it would make no difference. The protectionist would never shift and the free trader will not change.

My biggest gripe is all the whining without solutions. Every one of these threads has the contingent of us market supporters trying to convince the "I lost my job and the government needs to do something" crowd. It irks me that any conservative takes this stance. Those "conservatives" really need to re-examine the reasons they are a conservative.

[hedgetrimmer]

America must lower all tariffs against Latin American goods for the FTAA, yet, they are working against us because they don't like trading with "rich countries"? Is entering an open border sovereignty stealing treaty with a country like this worth it?

The President of Brazil, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, adjusts his spectacles at a business meeting in New Delhi, January 27, 2004. India and South America's main trading bloc signed an agreement on Sunday to establish a free trade area aimed at reducing dependence on trade with the rich countries. REUTERS/B Mathur

[hedgetrimmer]

India makes a deal with Brazil so they don't have to depend on trade with 'rich countries'. Yet they beat up the US because they say a ban on outsourching is against the spirit of free trade. Are they free traders when they are actually using trade to conduct a class war against the United States?


India has described the US reported decision to bar outsourcing of government contracts to other countries as against the spirit of free trade(AFP/File/Indranil Mukherjee)

[LowCountryJoe]

Do me a favor, please. Run a Google search using "'Stephen roach' SARS". Then, just for S&G go to opensecrets.com and see to whom Roach contributes campaign money.

I'm sorry, I don't believe Henny Penny when she says that the sky is falling. I also didn't see a SARS inspired global recession in 2003 - in fact, some may say we had a teensy weensy bit of growth. SARS Shmars!

On the other hand, Monkey Pox and Nile Virus are matters that should be taken much more seriously

[reademnweep]

As long as the same rules apply for all the qualified canidates. I think it time to look at salary as a potential discriminating factor. These jobs are NOT the same jobs that the global job market look at. The price tag has been cut on them by looking to these other countries. Is that fair?

[CSM]

It sounds like this is government intervention that artificially influences the price. I stated previously that I thought these actions are evil.

[reademnweep]

I don't care what the govmt does about it. I'll put my qualified canidate(from the USA) up against yours (PLACE YOUR COUNTRY NAME HERE). As long as we are paying what the job was worth BEFORE we looked for all this international talent.

[KC_Conspirator]

I am all for lessening government restrictions, if thats your point. We dont disagree on that.

[CSM]

"Is that fair?"

No, that is why we need the government to take action immediately and make sure that I am gauranteed a job at a specified wage. I better be able live comfortably on that wage too. Then the president will be doing his job!

[NYDave]

Joe, I don't recall opining on diseases. I really don't follow the media on this stuff too much as they tend to be hysterical. It sells newspapers and ad time on TV. Your are right, there are a lot of serious diseases out there. My granddaughter (in the Dominican Republic) is recovering from Hep. B which is a problem here as well. I guess I'm lucky, health wise as I haven't even had a common cold in about four years. However, I am recovering from the TREATMENT for prostate cancer. My prognosis is that it is 100% curable at my very early stage. Hey, I'm 60. It seems to go with the territory. Be well, Joe.

Dave

[CSM]

"As long as we are paying what the job was worth BEFORE we looked for all this international talent."

The only way to do that is to give the government authority to monitor wages world wide. Hence, you do care what the government does, in fact you want them to be more active. I could sit here and point out that we could equalize the net pay and it would still make sense to out source that labor. The government taxation and regulation is one of the major causes of these actions.

What you are seeing is a collective corporate shrug, we are paying the penalty for to much government intervention in the markets. I hope you enjoy it.

[CSM]

"I don't recall opining on diseases. I really don't follow the media on this stuff too much as they tend to be hysterical. It sells newspapers and ad time on TV."

Yep, but when it comes to outsourcing, the media is right on. There is no sensalization of the issue to create a crisis, they aren't using this issue at all to sell newspapers or ad time.

On a different note, I am glad to hear you are expected to fully recover. Good wishes are sent from Michigan.

[expat_panama]

a deceitful analogy

Deceitful or not, are you saying the US has fewer jobs since outsourcing began?  OK, I'll admit that's a trick question since Americans have been outsourcing for hundreds of years.

[Havoc]

No fair injecting a little reality into the discussion lol.

[Desron13]

"The same argument would call for protecting the jobs of blacksmiths, buggy makers, and operators of livery stables. Should we have done that when the automobile came along?"

The automobile did indeed make these jobs "go away". The outsourced jobs are not "going away". They're being sent to third world countries that pay wages so low that a person would be living under a freeway underpass if they accepted it here in the US. The educational level of US employees has absolutely nothing to do with this disaster. Why would one of these corporations pay an advanced PhD holder $150,000 per year in this country when they can pay an advanced PhD holder in India $20,000 for the same work.

[reademnweep]

Why don't these companies offer my guys (US canidate) the job at the new reduced salary? As we all know jobs are scarce now, and I'm sure they'll be some takers. I don't think the american worker is looking for a guarantee, he/she is looking for a level playing field. If you change the word salary and apply race, gender..Well I know your smart enough to understand where I'm going with this.

[hedgetrimmer]

I am trying to show the disconnect between what the free traders post here on this forum and reality. The free traders posit this utopian ideal, where you can trade with anyone you want and they can trade with you and everbody gets rich.

The reality is, and it is illustrated in my previous post and many other posts, that free trade is a tool that third world countries are using to wage economic warfare against the United States. China does it , India's doing it Brazil is doing it. Its like the United States government took a stupid pill. Oh, you want us to give away the store? Ok. Oh, you don't want to trade with us because we're "rich"? Here, here's my brothers store, since I already gave mine away.

Free trade as run by the WTO, and the various regional hemispheric trade groups like OAS, CIS, EU, ASEAN and OIS are never never going to benefit America as a sovereign nation. They will only benefit the elites who attend the WEF.

Oh and the United States government has taken a stupid pill, paid for and administered by the multinational corporations who are theiving from the US treasury and US taxpayer with the socialistic programs like OPIC and the INF.

[Monty22]

Looks like the rest of my IT department's getting offshored to Canada. They're going to tell us when exactly tomorrow.

Exxonmobil..

[reademnweep]

Ask yourself this question. If I was a black or woman worker and a white or male worker came and offered to work for half of what my employer was paying me .. What would happen next?