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To: johnmorris886
Since you seem to be more rational than your libertarian partner, I will attempt to have a discussion with you.

Having read you posts here, I find your own rationality is suspect.. But sure, we can try..

First, Respectfully, the list that you posted is not the official libertarian party platform. The list that I posted underneath the communist goals is taken word for word from the libertarian party platform.

So what? I consider american libertarians as those supporting our constitution. I don't care what the big 'L' party plank says.

Secondly On the list you posted It stated "Judges have *no* authority to make new law." Do you agree with this statement, and if so what is your position on the MA Supreme Judicial Court inventing new law out of the blue and ordering the State Legislature to enact sodomite marriage?

Did they? I'm positive they do not have that power.

Yep, the 4 Activist Judges gave the Legislature 180 days to bring the statutes in line with their opinion.

And then what? Will they send in the bailiffs?

The MA Supreme Judicial Court had no precent, no law, nothing other than their own activism for making the decision that they did. In fact they had to quote a Canadian Court Decision as precedent because never in the History of this nation has the idea of sodomite marriage been thought of as legal. No one can seriously say that it was the intent of John Adams (who wrote the MA Constitution) To allow sodomites to marry.

BIG deal. Get over it..

_________________________________________

What is your position on the United States Supreme Court inventing new law and overturning sodomy statutes of individual states?

That they did not do so. They simply overturned the verdict in that case, as it violated the individual rights of the queers..

Once again there was no basis for the courts decision.

Not true.. They cited their basis. Read the case.

Just 17 years prior the same court had ruled that: "The Constitution does not confer a fundamental right upon homosexuals to engage in sodomy. None of the fundamental rights announced in this Court's prior cases involving family relationships, marriage, or procreation bear any resemblance to the right asserted in this case. And any claim that those cases stand for the proposition that any kind of private sexual conduct between consenting adults is constitutionally insulated from state proscription is unsupportable. At the founding of our nation Every single state had laws banning sodomy. Once again no one seriously considered that the Constitution protected sodomy. The Same men that wrote the Constitution BANNED sodomy and made it a very serious crime.

Yep, common law of the day had many laws against sin & sodomy. And against many of our other individual rights, -- all long since struck down as unconstitutional.. -- You want the return of autocratic rule?

-------------------------------------

What is your position on the United States Supreme Court inventing new law and making legal the murder of unborn children?

That they did not do so.. They simply overturned the verdict in that case, as it violated the individual rights of the mother..

Once again there was no basis for the Court's decision in law. Nothing.

Wrong again. The court cited their basis. Read the case.

The Founding Fathers never intended for a FEDERAL court to tell individual states what they could and could not do.

Read Art. VI.. The States are bound to obey the Law of the Land.

It seems that my take on libertarians was correct. You seem to have no problem with the United States Supreme Court using it's FEDERAL power to force individual states to confirm to a certain social position.

The US Constitution 'forces' states to conform. ALL officials swear to honor it in their oaths of office.
It seems my take on you was quite correct. You are as irrational about our constitution as you are about libertarians.

How this can be called "small government" is beyond me. The Founders never intended for any branch of the FEDERAL government to force individual states to do anything. In fact the USSC back in 1833 found that: --

'Barron' and misguided 'states rights' movement it fostered was settled by a bloody civil war, and the 14th amendment..

Give it up, -- you anti-constitutionalists lost.

34 posted on 02/18/2004 10:00:25 PM PST by tpaine (I'm trying to be 'Mr Nice Guy', but the U.S. Constitution defines conservatism; - not the GOP. .)
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To: tpaine
RE: the states' rights arguments, I am not a big fan of federal intervention in states myself. I don't disagree with some of the results of their rulings, but I disagree with the notions that their rulings extending federal power over states engendered.

I think we thus diverge. Do you not agree that the extension of the federal power over the states was a major impetus for the expansion of federal law? I think its results have not been positive and while I agree it's a settled issue, I would prefer it hadn't been settled in this way.

For once, it seems, we have an honest difference of opinion. I'll relish this--a debate that is reasoned and respectful, unlike the FR normal name-calling and talking points we've come to expect from our normal bot 'debating' partners.
36 posted on 02/19/2004 7:01:12 PM PST by LibertarianInExile (THIS TAGLINE VETTED BY THE TSA...it was sharp and had a point before they got to it.)
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