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Outsourcing backlash hits India
NY Times via Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^
| February 17, 2004
| SARITHA RAI
Posted on 02/17/2004 12:42:53 AM PST by sarcasm
click here to read article
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To: Cronos
"Ok, the PRC buys 250,000 cars from us in 2004. How many did they buy from us in 2000? 1000? 2000? That's phenomenal growth.
By 2010, they'll buy millions of cars from us. See the big picture, the long term view."
Ok, lets look a little closer at the long term view. Say the chinese are buying millions of cars in a few years that have Ford or GM logos on them. Its pretty unlikely that those cars will be manufactured in the US and shipped around the world, isn't it? Isn't it far more likely that Ford and GM will open up manufacturing operations in China, or at least somewhere a lot closer to them than we are?
How does this help the US economy, other than by adding to GM's and Ford's corporate profits? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand your point.
To: Ciexyz
My bank too, Wachovia.
Hope they have good firewalls guarding my accounts.
102
posted on
02/17/2004 9:13:59 AM PST
by
citizen
(Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
To: phil_will1
Isn't it far more likely that Ford and GM will open up manufacturing operations in China, or at least somewhere a lot closer to them than we are?
Nope, for the same reason BMW doesn't manufacture all of it's cars over here. It's shipped across cheaper cars like their SUVs to be made here, but the higher quality, "German precision engineering" stuff is still made in Germany. Ditto for the Chinese stuff. Which Chinaman would buy a Chinese made car, knowing it may blow up in his face? He'd buy quality -- American.
103
posted on
02/17/2004 9:17:11 AM PST
by
Cronos
(W2K4!)
To: sarcasm; clamper1797; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; Paul Ross; ...
Ping On or off let me know.
This has one of the funniest Free Trade comments ever seriously made.
104
posted on
02/17/2004 9:23:14 AM PST
by
harpseal
(Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
To: sarcasm; clamper1797; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; Paul Ross; ...
Ping On or off let me know.
This has one of the funniest Free Trade comments ever seriously made.
105
posted on
02/17/2004 9:23:43 AM PST
by
harpseal
(Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
To: ninenot
You're right!
Those tariffs protected american workers and encouraged corporate america to invest it's capital dollars that came from american workers buying their products, back into their own country to create more jobs. We have lost most of the blue collar jobs and the white collar jobs are next.
We expect our citizens to be loyal to our country. We should expect no less of corporate america. We condem americans for buying chinese products with their money but applaud corporations in the name of free trade for investing it's billions of american capital dollars in the same country, creating a much richer enemy.
Of course you'll hear the same BS that the blue collar workers heard. That you can compete with anyone. You can, if you give up your standard of living and live like they do.There is no such thing as free trade. Someone has to pay and so far it has been the american worker and sooner or later so will our country and everyone in it including the politicans and corporate America. Your money is where your allegence is.
Henry Ford said it best when critized by other industial leaders for the higher wage he paid his workers. He said " I want my workers to be able to buy the product they are making". He was smart enough to know that his workers where his customers.
To: Cronos
The only reason American name cars are currently being sold in China is because new automobile plants are being built by American manufacturers tehre. By the way how many cars can an average Chinese in the Beijing area where teh average income is more than double the countryside buy? Lets see now at $2500/yr annual salary that leaves a whole lot to buy a car right. Grow up and understand the reality does not fit free trade lies.
107
posted on
02/17/2004 9:27:46 AM PST
by
harpseal
(Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
To: Cronos
FAce facts these countries are opening up and since 2 billion people are being freed from the socialist 'heaven' there will be greater supply of technically sound peopleFace facts yourself. India has teh world's second highest tariffs on American goods per teh WTO China imposes a 50% tariff on normal goods with another 14% VAT on top of that. this in a nation where the average annual income in the countryside is $1,000/yr in Beijing it is admittedly $2,00/yr. Gee that allows a whole lot of disposable income to buy American produced goods and services. Right.
Oh yes and we have nopt gone into the currency controls and the non-tariff restriction and the technology ownership issues either. The American people are being sacrificed on an altar of lies that we have anything resembling Free Trade.
Now tell me how much liberty the average Chinese enjoys these days. Why just a few years back that had teh bifg demonstrations in Tianamen Square where they errected a stute of liberty and those ended peacefully right. Wrong, [insulting name omitted due to Free Republic rules]. Maybe, just maybe, if you actually looked at the issue you wuld not be spouting the previous drivel. It is an insult to your reader's intellect. It is one way. china is importing capital equipment and exporting consumer garbage with rules that give them ownership of the technology in the future.
108
posted on
02/17/2004 9:43:50 AM PST
by
harpseal
(Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
To: phil_will1
"How does this help the US economy, other than by adding to GM's and Ford's corporate profits?"
And their shareholders....
And their market position....
And the extra $ which can be used to expand...
Other than that, nothing.
109
posted on
02/17/2004 9:53:36 AM PST
by
adam_az
(Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting weftists.)
To: sarcasm
"It smacks of retaliation that 'if you don't open up, we will impose restrictions,' That sounds like a good idea. It doesn't go far enough, but at least it would be a start!
To: harpseal
By the way how many cars can an average Chinese in the Beijing area where teh average income is more than double the countryside buy? Lets see now at $2500/yr annual salary that leaves a whole lot to buy a car
The average income...
Consider just he cream, say the top 1% of China buying a car a year -- that's about 12 million cars.
111
posted on
02/17/2004 10:52:07 AM PST
by
Cronos
(W2K4!)
To: harpseal
Why just a few years back that had teh bifg demonstrations in Tianamen Square where they errected a stute of liberty and those ended peacefully right.
China, communist China. yeah a problem. The Article is about India. A democracy.
112
posted on
02/17/2004 10:53:19 AM PST
by
Cronos
(W2K4!)
To: Cronos; AppyPappy
34 - "English IS the national language of India..."
Correct - the national language of India, by default, but not the native language of the Indians. There is no single native language, but a large number of different languages - about 80+.
English has become their default national language (which they don't usually speak at home), but the only language which they can speak to each other in which they can understand each other on a national basis.
113
posted on
02/17/2004 11:01:02 AM PST
by
XBob
To: Dialup Llama
RE: "The offshoring model in fact is the opposite of free trade. It is not trade at all but labor arbitrage. Unlike real arbitrage, the act of exploiting the wage differences is not ending the arbitrage opportunity. US companies create captive offshore centers in which the local employees are used to fulfill demand in the US while their wages are kept isolated from that same world demand."
This is an eloquent and learned way of saying what I attempted to say above about the difference between offshoring U.S. labor to India, China, etc. and expanding trade by our factories in Europe selling to Europeans -- or vice versa. The latter is free trade and former ain't.
I am exploring Googleland to find the total dollar amount of just how much U.S. taxpayers have paid/risked to date to help our "capitalists" do business over there building infrastructure such as the Dabhol Power Co. I think I am more likely to find those missing WMDs than how much taxpayers are helping our "capitalists."
114
posted on
02/17/2004 11:06:41 AM PST
by
WilliamofCarmichael
(Benedict Arnold was a hero for both sides in the same war, too!)
To: Lazamataz
What in world make you say he totelitarian? Because he is popular and does what is good for country? Because he prosecute oligarchs who steal monies and factories? Because people vote out communists and oligarch parties?
To: Cronos
Now lets see of that 12 million cars that will be sold in China why do you think they are having car factories built there. Not so more Americaqn cars can be brought in to compete with the Volkswagons, fords and GM products produced in China. Why do they not let in Harley Davidson Motorcycles to compete with the brands manufactured in China because they do not do it. Stop spouting ignorance in defence of an ideaology. Back up you theories with facts showing they are working. I personally think Free Trade would be a great idea to try sometime let mne know when other nations will go along. [Oncer more derogatory address to poster Cronos is deleted before posting due to FR rule]
116
posted on
02/17/2004 11:08:29 AM PST
by
harpseal
(Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
To: Cronos
India and China are the two biggest problems. Even the Indian government officials admit they do not open their markets to the USA produced products.
"That is not the way to go," said Yashwant Sinha, the external affairs minister. "It smacks of retaliation that 'if you don't open up, we will impose restrictions,' " Sinha told reporters last week.
Well if they do not open up everything from India should be slapped with massive retaliatory tariffs and we will negotiate letting them down in response to India's first moves. We do not have Free Trade instead we have a lie that hurts America. You are defending a lie.
117
posted on
02/17/2004 11:21:37 AM PST
by
harpseal
(Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
To: A. Pole
LOL!
118
posted on
02/17/2004 12:09:28 PM PST
by
Tauzero
To: Cronos
Nope, for the same reason BMW doesn't manufacture all of it's cars over here. It's shipped across cheaper cars like their SUVs to be made here, but the higher quality, "German precision engineering" stuff is still made in Germany. Ditto for the Chinese stuff. Which Chinaman would buy a Chinese made car, knowing it may blow up in his face? He'd buy quality -- American.You don't know the BMW manufacturing situation very well. I have owned two, and as far as 'precision' goes, the robots don't know which country they are in. As for the Chinese, they are intensely nationalistic, unlike the Cato-anti fair traders here...and they will buy Chinese when they can. And right now the Government doesn't even give them a choice, with its unrepentant and unapologetic protectionism. Why should they apologize if we are foolish enough to ship all our capital to them? I.e., their strategy is working...and your strategy of 'capitalism subverting them' is losing so badly ...it is of mythic proportions...I.e., "Greatest Business Blunders of the late-20th Century, etc."
119
posted on
02/17/2004 12:27:10 PM PST
by
Paul Ross
("A country that cannot control its borders isn't really a country any more."-President Ronald Reagan)
To: Cronos
Consider just the cream, say the top 1% of China buying a car a year -- that's about 12 million cars.A car a year? Highly unlikely. Even the Saudis have slowed down on their profligacy. Anyways, all 12 million will be built in China, no matter the name badge on the hood, because their Government has said so. So much for your fabulous Chinese Market. All you have instead created is the Chinese Manufacturing Collossus...with Western technology and industrial product and manufacturing design handed to them on a silver platter.
120
posted on
02/17/2004 12:35:40 PM PST
by
Paul Ross
("A country that cannot control its borders isn't really a country any more."-President Ronald Reagan)
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