The Confederate battle flag continues to be a symbol of regional pride

freelancestar ^ | 2/10/2004 | BUFFY RIPLEY

[sandydipper]

Long live DIXIE!

[rustbucket]

Everybody gets this wrong ... It is not the Confederate Battle Flag!. It is the Confederate Navy Flag. The Confederate Battle Flag is square and the diagonal blue strips are dark navy blue.

Wasn't just the naval jack. Here is some history for you about the origin of the flag and some units that flew it: Battle Flag of the Army of Tennessee. The Army of Tennessee was the second largest Confederate army. Continue scrolling down and see also the Battle Flag of the Department of Alabama, Mississippi, and East Louisiana.

[WKB]

One corner of the MS Sate flag ping

[CobaltBlue]

I agree with you that "state's rights" in the context of federalism is honorable and worthwhile.

However, I grew up in the Deep South during the era of segregation, and was taught romantic lies about "the War of Northern Aggression" and all that. And it just plain irritates me now.

I am eligible to join the Daughters of the Confederacy based on several ancestors, but have zero desire to do so as long as they spread lies.

Why not just tell the truth? Slavery was important to the Southern economy. Making the South give up slaves was as destructive as it would be to us if we had to give up gasoline. I had ancestors who owned slaves. I am not ashamed of it nor proud of it. It's a fact.

Further, by counting slaves as 3/5 of a person for purposes of the census, the South had representation in Congress disproportunate to their voting power. A slave owner who owned 100 slaves effectively had the voting power of 60 men. Spreading slavery to the western territories was a way of keeping that power.

The Civil War was about money and power, preserving an economic way of life. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Non-Sequitur]

There is an old expression about using statistics in the same manner that a drunken man uses a lamp lost - for support rather than ilumination.

Your claim is false. There were not 2.96 times as many free blacks in the south as there were up North. If there were 226,000 blacks up North then for your claim to be correct then there would have to have been almost 669,000 free blacks down south and that is patently ridiculous.

[Non-Sequitur]

Lincoln stated in several speeches that the white race was superior and that he could care less about the issue of slavery. In fact, he profited from the sale of his father-in-law's slaves fully two years after the end of the "War of Northern Aggression".

And, if true, fully two years after he was dead. So how did Lincoln manage that neat little trick?

[Non-Sequitur]

Slavery as an institution was fading, and making way for more pragmatic agricultural practices, including the use of immigrant labor.

Bullsh*t, Buffy.

[meandog]

The Confederate Naval Jack (the rectangular version of the ANV's square battle flag) was also used by the Army of Tennessee. I believe it was mostly AOT veterans who formed the original incarnation of the Ku Klux Klan, so they chose to use their old battle standard to represent the new organization. That particular association is still causing problems, despite the hate groups choosing new symbols because they have no connection with the CSA...

The Army of Tennesse, let's see, one real battle, ONE (Chickamauga) that qualifies as a victory. The rest of the AOT was fritted away by incompetents like Bragg, Hood and Johnson. The AOT isn't fit to hold Lee's, Jackson's, Stuart's or A.P. Hill's coat much less deserves to hold a flag!

[Non-Sequitur]

Slavery itself was inefficient, and market forces were already steering Southern agriculture toward more streamlined production methods.

For example?

Even had the WBTS never been fought, there's ample evidence to suggest that slave labor would've been histoire by the turn of the century (1900).

What evidence would that be?

[HELLRAISER II]

Above all else, I'm an American. Albeit a proud Southern American.

[BSunday]

And I don't believe there would be that much controversy if folks displayed the official flag--due to the ignorance of the American public

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

You know the poor confederate soldier's flag is being desecrated isn't a good argument. You could say the same thing about German soldiers and the Nazi flag.

The argument should be that this flag was the Virginia battle flag, it was selected many decades ago to represent the dead confederate soldiers because it did not represent the confederacy. I suppose some state or group could select one of many other battle flags, except maybe the Irish ones for the same purpose. But if the KKK or other hate group start using that flag then we would start the whole argument over again.

[Colt .45]

"And I've got a free speech right to tell him that the Civil War was about slavery, pure and simple. The so-called "state's rights" is code for the right to own slaves."

I believe it is you who needs to go back and study up on what the Founders' actually intended in regards to "self-determination". But for your further edification: "It is to be the assent and ratification of the several States, derived from the supreme authority in each State, the authority of the people themselves. The act, therefore, establishing the Constitution, will not be a NATIONAL, but a FEDERAL act." --James Madison, Federalist No. 39

"[T]he States can best govern our home concerns and the general government our foreign ones. I wish, therefore...never to see all offices transferred to Washington, where, further withdrawn from the eyes of the people, they may more secretly be bought and sold at market." --Thomas Jefferson

"The State governments possess inherent advantages, which will ever give them an influence and ascendancy over the National Government, and will for ever preclude the possibility of federal encroachments. That their liberties, indeed, can be subverted by the federal head, is repugnant to every rule of political calculation." --Alexander Hamilton

If the "People" of the South believed that the Federal Government was overstepping its Constitutional bounds in their internal (i.e. State) affairs and had done so for decades, then they had every right to form their own form of Government.

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state." --Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

The War was about what every war is normally about - economics and power! You definitely need to dig deeper than just buying the Yankee teachings.

[Gianni]

You see, I actually took the time to read the various Articles of Secession, [...] They wanted to maintain slavery, pure and simple.

Someone should tell the Georgians, who didn't think it that simple and devoted about half their document to harmful economic policies of the incoming administration.

[Colt .45]

"And I've got a free speech right to tell him that the Civil War was about slavery, pure and simple. The so-called "state's rights" is code for the right to own slaves."

For your further edification:

"We emphasize economics and politics as major factors leading to war. The Republicans who came to power in 1860 supported a mercantilist economic agenda of protectionism, inflation, public works, and big government. High tariffs would have been a boon to manufacturing and mining in the north, but would have been paid largely by those in the export-oriented agriculture economy."

"Southern economic interests understood the effects of these policies and decided to leave the union. The war was clearly related to slavery, but mainly in the sense that Republican tariffs would have squeezed the profitability out of the slave-based cotton plantation economy to the benefit of Northern industry (especially Yankee textiles and iron manufacturing). Southerners would also have lost out in terms of public works projects, government land giveaways, and inflation."

"The real truth about wars is that they are not started over principle, but over power. Wars however, are not won by power on the battlefield, but by the workings and incentives of men who go to work in fields and factories, to those who transport, store and sell consumer goods, and most especially to the entrepreneurs and middlemen who make markets work and adapt to change. This emphasis and this economic account of tariffs, blockade and inflation, like the focus of Degas’s "Cotton Exchange" reveals the most important and least understood aspect of war." - The Economics of the Civil War

Ma'am, I believe it is you who is wrong!

[RebelBanker]

I actually do not know very much about the Western theater - my reenactment unit portrays an artillery battery that was in the Army of Northern Virginia. Also, almost all of the reenactments in this area (Maryland, Virginia and Pennsylvania) are of Eastern battles.

My point, however, is that the white supremacists and other such type individuals have chosen to dishonor the Army of Tennessee battle flag rather than the Army of Northern Virginia battle flag.