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To: Modernman; CobaltBlue
That's because, as has been pointed out on this thread, there doesn't seem to be any objective way to define race.

There are two very easy ones: skin color and recent ancestral origins. (If we go back far enough, we are all related.) Most people have no difficulty grouping individuals into races based on physical characteristics alone. As there is considerable mixing between the races today, the lines separating those groups become less distinct, but with modern day genetic techniques, it is possible to find a set of distinct genetic markers. And eventhough the PC left or conservatives with positive intent are trying to erase the distinction between races by calling them arbitrary or non-existent, there is an opposite trend in medical research that calls for genetically taylored treatment for different racial groups. The different groups not only carry different genetic susceptibility for certain pathology, they also carry different genetic predispositions for their response to treatment. And, indeed, there are sets of genetic markers that can identify racial groups or ethnic/geographic ancestry. And these genetic markers do correlate with skin color and overt physical features.

Skin color and/or geographic ancestry are often used to socially or culturally separate the races. This is most often done to no good end. Skin color does not correlate with intelligence or behavior the way that a polymorphism in a liver enzyme correlates with sensitivity to pharmaceuticals. And even to the extent that it might correlate, it does so as an emergent property of the whole genetic makeup of an individual (i.e. it does not depend on one or two genes) and is expressed with great variation between individuals. And this an important point: even if there is an average difference between two racial groups, the overlap of the whole group is much greater that any difference. This means that the use of physical characteristics such as skin color as an indicator of, say, the intelligence of that individual is not valid. For example, if a green race scored an average 10% lower on an intelligence metric than a purple race, a green with the median score would still be more intelligent than 40% of the purples.

There are differences between races and they have have a testable genetic basis. The boundaries between the races are blurring as the world becomes smaller and mixing occurs. My guess is that in colonial days the differences were much starker than today. Social stratification based on race is wrong in my opinion, but does not imply anything about whether or not there are races. The phenomenon of race exists, but the concept of race as a social structure is not useful.

208 posted on 02/10/2004 9:30:55 AM PST by Nebullis
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To: Nebullis
Your post is an excellent example of why people should be judged as individuals.

But using your green and purple example, what should we do if someone insists that there cannot possibly be any average IQ difference between greens and purples, asserting that intelligence is cultural and not genetic. They then demand that "X" number of purples be denied college admission, employment, or whatever, even though they qualified, in order that greens be represented by quota in all those areas? Do we simply capitulate to the demand, or do we say that since greens on average scored 10% lower than purples, greens will be represented in some areas at less than their population percentages?

In other words, do we judge people as individuals or do we operate on the group assumption that any difference between races is cultural and any difference in performance must be due to a bad dose of negative culture, so to compensate we give each race a quota in each area of human endeavor?


212 posted on 02/10/2004 9:56:12 AM PST by puroresu
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To: Nebullis; Modernman
I have to say that most of the discussion on this thread has been so depressing that I am sorry I ever brought it up.

However, your point about tailoring medical treatment to racial groups piqued my attention.

It seems to me that we're going to get past that very fast and go directly to HLA sub-groupings. I think that's where the future of that concept lies.

I am taking part in genetic research with respect to my rheumatoid arthritis, which statistically does have a genetic component, and does run in my family. For that, they are looking at the HLA sub-groups for sure.
214 posted on 02/10/2004 10:13:29 AM PST by CobaltBlue
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