Race only skin deep - S.J. STUDENTS DISCOVER GENETIC LINK

Mercury News ^ | Mon, Feb. 09, 2004 | Katherine Corcoran

[Cronos]

Any man would be far better off if he just agreed, whether he believed it or not, that we are all descended from Adam.
Hear! Hear!

[Age of Reason]

No, you are wrong. Every successful civilisation has imported great men and women from other nations -- the Roman Emperors TRajan and Hadrian were both of Spanish descent, and later Emperors came from North Africa, Britain, etc. TRajan's ancestors may well have been those celtIberian tribes who fought AGAINST the Romans in the Second Punic war.

And where is Ancient Rome today?

Our kids are pampered because they live in plenty, they are brainwashed to think that dumb is good and that they should not work hard, but expect jobs to fall in their laps (not all of them, but most, can't really blame them if you allow them to watch the brainwashing rubbish on the lib media). So importing talent is good.

As I said, there is something seriously wrong with a culture if it produces people who can't wipe their own behinds.

And you don't fix something by destroying it.

And speak for your own kids.

[ffusco]

Intelligence is not the same as intellectual. Also I disagree that the east dominated that sphere at any time. I will concede that they were more holistic in their spirituality, but that's about it. None of the innovations that mark the industrial and post-industrial age were Eastern in origin, and if it wasn't for Intell and Microsoft, they would still be manufacturing cheap AM radios, which was another Western invention.

The western tradition of science was based on reductionism, that is finding the smallest parts to something.Now we split the Atom and travel to distant planets. Where some see the trees, some see a forest and some see lumber.

Furthermore, Manners are specific to location. The original argument by another post was that non-whites were genetically incapable of behaving in a civilized way.

This is the age old myth of "Orientalism" which implies that non-whites are emotionally, culturally and genetically inferior. This persists today even among Europeans, even in certain nations.

Regarding Initiaitive. We value individuality in the west so we reward those accordingly. Any discussion of ancient peoples is meaningless.

Regarding manners, also these are learned by socialization. What we consider good mannners is just that- our concept of good manners. Arabs while known for their hospitality are considered by some to lack good manners because: They lack our definition of personal space, so they stand too close to you in any situation.

[ffusco]

Trajan and Hadrian were not Spanish. They were Italian provincial Romans who grew up in Spain, however your overall argument is sound and I agree with your premise that America has prospered by importing talent and skilled labor for abroad.

[ffusco]

The kind of Social Darwinism you discuss was the rationalization for the Holocaust.

[Cronos]

None of the innovations that mark the industrial and post-industrial age were Eastern in origin, and if it wasn't for Intell and Microsoft, they would still be manufacturing cheap AM radios, which was another Western invention.

The industrial age started approximately in the mid-1700s. %That's not so long ago, 300 odd years, but maths, weitten language, paper etc. came from the east. And they are getting into stride. your point about Arabs standig too close to you is a reflection of personal taste -- the JApanese would want you to stand far off while the italians may kiss you on both cheeks.

Anyway my point was that saying that either Western or Islamic or Chinese or whatever civilisation is the best is incorrect. There can be no 'best' overall. There can be sub-divisions in which one is better than the other, but not overall. IT's like saying men are better than women. That BLANKET statement is incorrect. There are women stronger than average men and other things. in many cases civ, culture etc. play roles but it comes down to the individual.

[ffusco]

Cultural relativism is a valid point, but it doesn't imply all cultures are equal. I have a bias- I think my culture affords the greatest amount of personal freedom,the chance to acheive prosperity and find hapiness. Therefore by MY standards MY culture is better.

Re written language and paper. The Romans had libraries filled with books with spines while the rest of the world used scrolls if they even read at all. And the alphabet we use is of course, Latin.

Re: Mathematics. The notion that Arabs invented higher math has been refuted here many times but it stuck, much like Alexander Graham Bell gets credit for the telephone.

Re personal space. You are correct, it is a personal and cultural thing. But personal space also implies a sanctity of the individual with other cultures such as Japanese, lack for the most part.

[ffusco]

Algerbra was derived - not invented - from Hindu and other ancient sources by an arab scholar.

[Age of Reason]

The kind of Social Darwinism you discuss was the rationalization for the Holocaust.

Social Darwinism was formed by people not as smart as I, because I realize it is not that easy--possibly even impossible--for mankind to anticipate which genes endow someone with superior survival traits.

For example, I can see a good argument that any genetic tendency toward a high IQ is possibly as inferior as one toward a low IQ.

I wouldn't measure the success of mental functioning by IQ at all.

I'd measure it by how well a person's brain works in concert with that person's gonads--at least as far as to what was most fit in prior generations.

As for fitness in future generations--that MIGHT be another story.

[ffusco]

Good one! A of R

[Dan Evans]

We seem to be talking at cross purposes here. Am I correct in saying that you too believe that we should stop considering race as anythign more than folks looking different?

Not just looking different but acting different. And I think that the way people act is affected by genes. A man marries a women largely because of the way the woman looks and a woman marries a man because of the way the man acts. And that is what causes races.

Someone here said that black cats are no different than white cats. That may be so but people who breed cats will tell you that orange Tabbies have different personalities Persian cats but they are both more civilized than, for instance, wild Lynxes. I think races are different breeds of cats.

We should stop having interracial communication as just have interpersonal communication? If that's what you're saying, I agree. Stop the hyphenated american syndrome.

If you could get politicians and judges and lawyers to stop talking about our hyphens that would be just grand. Our government is prohibited by law from treating races different. The law is being broken. People, however, should be free to do as they please in their associations (and that includes business associations, hiring, firing and contracting).

[Dan Evans]

Sub-saharan Africa is 99% black/Negroid BECAUSE NO white/Caucasians managed to cross the dividing Sahara desert in any great numbers.

Caucasians at one time or another colonized most of Africa (by boat, not through the Sahara) yet they are 1% of the population there. America was also a colony yet Caucasians are 75% of the population here. What was the difference?

[Dan Evans]

Factors like intelligence, manners, and initiative are cultural, not genetic. Western culture values these things, so they are encouraged.

Cultural factors encourage genetic effects -- and the process is recursive. Jewish mothers encourage their daughters to marry intelligent (and wealthy) men. As a result, Jews tend to be more intelligent.

[Dan Evans]

Sounds like Mein Kampf to me.

Hitler blamed others (mostly the Jews) for the problems of Germany. If you want to find modern parallels, ask yourself who today is blaming all their problems on another race and who is demanding remedies and reparations.

[cyborg]

Don't exhaust yourself presenting the obvious.

[ffusco]

The answer is obvious. However my contempt for those people rests solely on their culture and history. I don't think they are genetically inferior, or incapable of living in polite society as some would have you believe.

[ffusco]

As opposed to non-Jewish mothers who encourage their daughters to marry ignorant louts?

You confuse success (wealth) with intelligence. A
A degreed professional may have more training and education than a plumber and is probably better informed, but that doesn't mean he is more intelligent.

[Dan Evans]

As opposed to non-Jewish mothers who encourage their daughters to marry ignorant louts?

No, as opposed to non-Jewish mothers who think it is none of their business.

You confuse success (wealth) with intelligence.

No, I didn't mean to imply that intelligence and wealth are always linked (although they are highly correlated). When I said "Jewish mothers encourage their daughters to marry intelligent (and wealthy) men" I'm implying they prefer both criterion.

[ffusco]

Thanks Dan.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Caucasians at one time or another colonized most of Africa (by boat, not through the Sahara) yet they are 1% of the population there. America was also a colony yet Caucasians are 75% of the population here. What was the difference?

More brutal slaughter of the native population in the Americas?