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To: presidio9
The author of this book would have better read "Guns, Germs and Steel" before issuing the critique.

The fact of the matte is there are geographic and biological reasons why Europe was able to advance beyond other cultures and these advacnes were not due in any respect to race.

Take a white "tribe" and transplant them into Subsaharan Africa around 2000 B.C., or a black "tribe" and transplant them into western Europe at the same time, and the geography, climiate and biology of the area would result in the black tribe behaving like whites and the white tribe behaving like subsaharan Africans.

Either blacks, whites and orientals are the same species or they are not. That they can and do interbreed to produce viable offspring indicates they are the same species. Ergo, their mental and phsyical capabilities, within societal and historical circumscribed limits are identical.

Are American blacks better athletes than American whites on the average? Yes. Why? The conditions of slavery, the Middle Passage and selection of slaves themselves were factors conducive to the survivla of physically stronger individuals.

Do American Whites on the average, perform better than American blacks on many performance tests? Yes they do. Why? The average American white and the average American black come from different cultural backgrounds. In most white societies, education and learning are valued skills. In many black environments in America they are not, and the average black kid is not exposed to the same educational opportunities as white kids.

Take a young white kid, move him into such an environment, and he'll preform like a black kid from such an environment, and vice-versa.

HOWEVER. these stereotypic behaviors are changing in America - QUICKLY. More blacks are rising through the cirporate and social ladders and these individuals are indistinguishable, in performance from their white colleagues.

An "iintelligence" test is a tricky thing.

43 posted on 02/06/2004 2:07:50 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR JOE MCCARTHY!!!)
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To: ZULU
Yes more blacks are rising through the corporate and social ladders but I don't see the same rise with white athletes. Maybe there should be affirmative action is sports, then you'd see more whites.
47 posted on 02/06/2004 2:14:32 PM PST by tbird5
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To: ZULU
Either blacks, whites and orientals are the same species or they are not. That they can and do interbreed to produce viable offspring indicates they are the same species. Ergo, their mental and phsyical capabilities, within societal and historical circumscribed limits are identical.

Pekinese and Greyhound dogs are of the same species, they can and do interbreed to produce viable offspring. But they are in no way equal physically and mentally.

Take a white "tribe" and transplant them into Subsaharan Africa around 2000 B.C., or a black "tribe" and transplant them into western Europe at the same time, and the geography, climiate and biology of the area would result in the black tribe behaving like whites and the white tribe behaving like subsaharan Africans.

So if I take a pack of Pekinese and let them hang out at the dog track, eventually they will become champion racers? That's absurd.

72 posted on 02/06/2004 2:51:25 PM PST by FreedomCalls (It's the "Statue of Liberty," not the "Statue of Security.")
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To: ZULU
Either blacks, whites and orientals are the same species or they are not. That they can and do interbreed to produce viable offspring indicates they are the same species. Ergo, their mental and phsyical capabilities, within societal and historical circumscribed limits are identical.

Fallacious thinking. The fact that different groups from the same species can interbreed says nothing about their equality with regards to specific abilities and talents. According to your "logic," all groups' mental and physical capabilities are identical. And don't use weasel words like "within societal and historical circumscribed limits," to back out of saying anything meaningful.

Are American blacks better athletes than American whites on the average? Yes. Why? The conditions of slavery, the Middle Passage and selection of slaves themselves were factors conducive to the survivla of physically stronger individuals.

Nonsense. Blacks are built differently than whites, in ways that give them, on average, greater strength and stamina. It's genetic.

Do American Whites on the average, perform better than American blacks on many performance tests? Yes they do. Why? The average American white and the average American black come from different cultural backgrounds. In most white societies, education and learning are valued skills. In many black environments in America they are not, and the average black kid is not exposed to the same educational opportunities as white kids.

You beg the question -- why do whites tend to value education, while blacks tend not to? One tends to value what one is good at, more than what one is not terribly good at.

Take a young white kid, move him into such an environment, and he'll preform like a black kid from such an environment, and vice-versa.

Not necessarily.

HOWEVER. these stereotypic behaviors are changing in America - QUICKLY.

False. As John Ogbu's research has shown, rather than the achievement culture of the old black bourgeoisie dripping down the social order, wealthy young blacks have embraced the anti-intellectual, anti-work ethic identified with the underclass.

More blacks are rising through the cirporate and social ladders and these individuals are indistinguishable, in performance from their white colleagues.

Again false. The performance of those blacks rising up the social ladder tends to be an embarrassment, compared to that of their white colleagues. The reason: they got the gig through affirmative action. And that is why well-to-do black kids no longer apply themselves -- they know they don't have to, in order to get admitted to Ivy League schools, or to later get hired by Fortune 500 corporations.

101 posted on 02/06/2004 3:24:52 PM PST by mrustow
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To: ZULU
"That they can and do interbreed to produce viable offspring indicates they are the same species"

Maybe you can explain a GREAT MYSTERY to me? If all humans are the same species even with the color differences/eyes/and other distinctive differences....

WHY is a black bird with a blue beak a different species than the identical black bird with a yellow beak?

Why are the birds NOT racist for prefering their own?

Just a thought that I've always wondered but was never answered
155 posted on 02/06/2004 7:19:15 PM PST by steplock (www.FOCUS.GOHOTSPRINGS.com)
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