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To: realpatriot71
Any spirit or spiritual experience that describes humans in heaven or hell is not from God, for this is not Biblical.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Phil 1:21-24 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

2 Cor 5:6-10 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

2 Thess 1:6-10 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Rev 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

John 14:1-3 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in Me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Luke 16:22-24 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

These are just a few of the many verses in the New Testament that confirm the truth of life after death both for the saved and for the lost.

The Old Testament confirms this truth also, although it is somewhat veiled in comparison to the New Testament. The New Testament is concealed in the Old, and the Old Testament is revealed in the New.

The verses you quoted from the Old Testament were written in the context of a man's earthly perspective on physical death. Thus, phrases like "the dead know nothing" or "the dead do not praise the Lord" are used.

As for the New Testament verses you quoted, along with your flawed exegesis of the Scriptures in general, my guess is that you are possibly a Seventh-Day Adventist or a member of one of the other Christian cults which disavows the truth of life after death.

300 posted on 02/05/2004 8:37:20 AM PST by music_code (Atheists can't find God for the same reason a thief can't find a policeman.)
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To: music_code; Quix
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Of course belief in Christ is the only way to eternal life. The saved will live eternally with God after the second coming, but not because of their own immortality of the soul, but because of a gift from God.

Phil 1:21-24 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

Paul knew that since "the dead know nothing" that the first thing he would see, relative to his perception, after his death would be the face of his Redeemer. For to die in the Lord is akin to being with the Lord immediately after death, as the dead and saved will have no experience after death, save that of the resurrection. Furthermore, if the saved go to heaven at death, there is no need for a ressurection.

2 Cor 5:6-10 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Of course the righteous want to be free from this "body" of sin and be with the Lord, and of course God will Judge all. This is a proof of life after death?

2 Thess 1:6-10 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Yes, the wicked will be destroyed. This verse however does not support "the wicked currently in hell". God will judge and God will destroy and this destruction will be everlasting. That is the end result - the destruction of the wicked - is eternal, not the punishing process.

Rev 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.

Be VERY careful making any literal conclusions from such a highly symbolic book of prophecy.

John 14:1-3 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in Me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

EXACTLY! We go to heaven when Christ comes back for His people, not before.

Luke 16:22-24 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

This is a parable - an object lessen - NOT a discussion of the afterlife and ironically enough read verse 31 of the same chapter clearly states: "An he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the Prophets, niether will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Obviously God does NOT intend to use the "dead" to convert. Now to the parable itself, if taken literally, we can assume that those in hell can talk to not only God but the saved - NOT BIBLICAL! We can also assume that Abraham has a VERY large bosom (it'll be VERY interesting to meet him if this is the case). The point of this parable is not that there are people in hell, but rather that God will not use the dead to convert. It's simple. Christ used pagan symbology familiar wth his crowd to create a story that had a real religious point. Using this parable as a proof, only hurts your argument.

The verses you quoted from the Old Testament were written in the context of a man's earthly perspective on physical death. Thus, phrases like "the dead know nothing" or "the dead do not praise the Lord" are used.

Remember your parable? What did Christ have to say about those who do not hear Moses and the prophets? Who wrote the OT? Does the Bible, the Word of the God Most High ever contradict itself? If "God is not the author of confusion" (I Cor. 14:33), then why the apparent contradiction? You have quite a cognitive dissonance to clear up I fear.

It is written: "All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Tim. 3:16

It is written: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" 2 Tim 2:15

It is written: "A fool despiseth his father's instruction: but he that regardeth reproof is prudent" Proverbs 15:5

It is written: "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth, being condemned of himself" Titus 3:10,11

Think on these things.

309 posted on 02/05/2004 9:47:59 AM PST by realpatriot71 (It's time to build a freakin' wall!)
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To: music_code; realpatriot71
Not to be difficult on this highly charged subject, but the fact is that you have both quoted from the same book, and from what I can tell the quotes you have both provided contradict each other.
316 posted on 02/05/2004 11:44:47 AM PST by Elliott Jackalope (We send our kids to Iraq to fight for them, and they send our jobs to India. Now THAT'S gratitude!)
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