Greeks the EU's Most Fervent Anti-Americans: Poll (And the big, fat Greek horse…)

EUbusiness ^ | February 2, 2004 | Unattributed

[quidnunc]

More than any other nation in the European Union, Greeks believe that US foreign policy damages world peace and does not help fight terrorism, according to an EU-wide poll, the Greek part of which was published here Monday.

Eighty-five percent of Greeks said the United States played a negative role for world peace, against a EU-average of 53 percent, according to autumn figures of the Eurobarometer, a EU-sponsored, periodical survey across the bloc's 15 current member states.

Washington's policies also played a negative role in the struggle against terrorism, three in four Greeks said, compared with a 37-percent average across the EU.

-snip-

[Heyworth]

Well, to be fair, their objections are identical to the objections of the Turks to anything like an independent Kurdistan. Greece has a sizeable Macedonian minority and doesn't want them getting any ideas about taking their part of the country and joining up with their ethnic brethren north of the border.

[MarMema]

ping

[Destro]

the fact they had one of the most dangerous airports

You mean Boston and Newark? I assumed the airports that allowed the 9/11 terrorists a free pass onboard would qualify.

[longtermmemmory]

The new Eleftiros Venizelos Airport is as modern as any airport.

The old airport was designed for a two ages ago.

[longtermmemmory]

Excellent article, thanks for linking it. It deserves its own thread.

I hope the American Forces are doing something to protect the Othodox Christians in Southern Iraq.

Islam does not believe in religious freedom.

[Destro]

No thank you to the Greeks who delayed the start of Operation Barbarossa long enough for the Germans to die in the snow outside the gates of Mosocow? No thank you for their role in the Battle of the Atlantic (one of the largest merchant marine fleets on earth-the real reason the EU wanted Greece in) and the D-Day invasion? For being the only nation to have ever defeated by force of arms a communist guerilla movement? The help Greek mercs gave the Marines in winning the war against the Barbary pirates?? ....to the shores of Tripoli, anyone?

PS: commenting on what someone said about the Greek economy. Greece is the "poorest" country in the EU if GNP as the measure but Greeks live longer and have higher literacy rates and the lowest crime rates in all of Europe - in fact in all the industrial world. So just how "poor" are they? Greece's economy is larger than Polands. On that I blame Poland's communist past. But that is a telling figure.

That said - do I think this poll is correct- probably. So my next question is why is a deeply Christian people like the Greeks whose divorce and crime rates are so low they make Americans look like debauched 70s era swingers so angry at us?

[Destro]

I grimace when my fellow Americans call other airports around the world unsafe and then think how hubris came and bit us on the ass. Pride is indeed a grave sin.

[God luvs America]

And you know what...it all would've meant sh!t had we not gotten involved in '44.

[rightisright]

Personally, I don't care why the Greeks feel this way about us. Their neurosis is their own, why should we suffer fools? I bet you were also asking, on September 12, 2001; "Why do the muslims hate us?".

As for all those 'thank you's', I believe a little thing called the Marshall Plan took care of many generations of 'thank you's', too bad the current generation of Greeks don't realize that.

Oh, and I speak from experience. I'm a first-generation Greek-American who has seen this anti-Americanism first hand.

[quidnunc]

Destro wrote: That said - do I think this poll is correct- probably. So my next question is why is a deeply Christian people like the Greeks whose divorce and crime rates are so low they make Americans look like debauched 70s era swingers so angry at us?

In part because we sided with the Bosnians against the Serbians, who are Orthodox Catholic like the Greeks.

[Destro]

Of course--as in allies. It was not a solo effort. The allies would have lost the war of not for these Greeks standing up to Italy and beating back an invasion that forced Hitler to halt the invasion of Russia timetable to correct the problem and then the delay causing the Germans to freeze outside of Moscow that set the Germans up for Stalingrad that allowed the Americans into North Africa,etc.

Ever see that miniseries "Connections"? That war was not a solo effort and Greece and England stood alone against the Axis powers for months.

Since I am not a jingoist, my next question is why is a deeply Christian people like the Greeks whose divorce and crime rates are so low they make Americans look like debauched 70s era swingers so angry at us?

They live longer then us. Their cities are clean and modern and almost crime free. They are Christians (even if the funny looking kind). They are not communists since they produce so many Onasis like billionaries - so why?

[Destro]

Probably.

[Tailback]

Wow, I could have told you guys this back in 1988. I've never been treated as badly as a tourist as I was in Greece. Meanwhile, in Turkey I had a blast and was treated well. Go figure....

[the FLY]

Stats on divorce and crime can be misleading. Greece is a very traditional macho culture, not an empowered culture. (Every Greek I know is in a dysfunctional relationship) For debauchery just go to the boozookia on any night, not just a weekend, or just watch prime time TV programming. As far as the city's being clean and modern, give me a break. Have you ever taken a dump in a Greek toilet?
Churches on every corner doesn't make the Greeks deeply Christian. They are the most corrupt country in the EU.

The Greeks hate, maybe that is a bit harsh, dislike America because everyone in the Balkans is a victim of something. Nowadays, it is easier to blame the problems on the US's perceived hegemony. America exploits the entire world, after all, and the feeling in Greece is that they are not in control of their own destiny. Ask any Greek teenager, or college student, I have. they have no hope, and that, my friend, is NOT America's fault.

[longtermmemmory]

Lets not forget there is an election on March 7. Prime Minister Simitis (Paskok, socialists) stepped aside so the son of former Prime Minister Papandreou (also Pasok) could take over and give it a younger face to compete against the USA born Karamalis of NewDemocracy.

The Socilists and the commies are pushing the anti-american slant to counter the expected wins of the NewDemocracy party (conservative). I just saw on MegaTV that the latest polls show a commanding lead going into the election. 51.2% ND and 35% to Pasok. The numbers are repeated here http://www.gogreece.com/news/headlines/story.html?id=23593.

Remember they have a parlementary system and they winning party needs to have 151 seats to select the prime minister.

Thus the commies with their 6% expected interest (remember we had 5% green party here in the states last presidential go around) could push for the Pasok prime minister.

Part of the anger is generated by a overwhelmingly one sided media. There is no cable. Only a few bother to have Nova Satellite Service. That leave you with the BBC, Euronews, and CNNeurope. All three are so venimous in the anti americanism it makes the version of CNN in the USA look only slightly biased. The are not shown any of the other side. Fortunatly there is a constant political debate among greeks. Its a national passtime.

Nobody likes to be pushed around. Yet, what do any of us expect when the BBC is tell you your country is being pushed around and you can't do jack to stop it. How did we as Americans react when the FRENCH WERE TELLING US what we can and can not do. We are blessed, to be able to tell the French to go stuff themselves.

Culturally Greeks are very independent minded. In 2003 when the Health Minister announced he was not going to broadcast some very graphic anti smoking advertisments produced in Austrailia, he said to the effect, (i paraphrase) "we can't take every little pleasure out peoples lives." I was there when that story broke. It was more a broke-ete. They were pissed when the French usurped the EU agenda during the Greek's turn at the EU presidency. However socialist Prime Minister Simitis was essenially impotent to speak against his ideological brother.

There is also a lower expectation against a little police brutality or citizens who engage in self help. In the far spread village areas, Sherriff Andy Taylor lives again.

Is there anti-american sentiment there, yes absolutly. Heck, you can even find the exact same sentiment among the 7 dwarves this primary season. Do not the media here play games with the news to slant it? The timing and the source is very suspect. But as always follow the money.

[Destro]

Ever take a dump in a New York toilet? In Scotland? (Train spotting anyone). What is wrong with you that you have to use public toilets?

And unless you are married to a Greek or counsel Greek couples - restrict to comments you can prove. Machsimo culture is found in Jordan and Brazil and in Jordan y ou have honor killings and in Brazil mass rapes and murders of women. Not so in Greece. Greece villages and hamlets and cities are clean and crime free - but with the influx of Muslims that has changed but still lower then any Western nation. They live longer then most people too. People who live in abusive relationships don't live longer.

Interpol Study: Greece Has Lowest Crime Rate in Europe

By George Anagnostopoulos for Southeast European Times in Athens - 15/01/04

Studies published by Interpol indicate that Greece has the lowest crime rate in Europe, making it among the safest countries in which to live or visit. During 2002, there were only 4,145 infractions per 100,000 inhabitants. Among those, there were two murders, eight sex offences, two rapes, and 672 thefts. Interpol says 85 per cent of the cases have been solved.

By comparison, the UK has had an average of three times as many homicides, ten times more sex offences, six times more rapes and thefts. Only 23 per cent of the approximately 5,673,000 cases were solved.

The profile of crime in the two countries is different. In numbers, thefts and drug offences are relatively high in Greece, but more serious, physical crimes -- murder, rape and serious assault -- are uncommon. The reverse seems to be true for the UK and most of Western Europe.

Greece, however, ranks high in money laundering, trafficking and counterfeiting. That does not come as a surprise, since it is an international passage for criminals between Europe, Africa and Asia. (Muslim gangs from Albania-America's newest allies)

According to economist Ilias Ioakimoglou, who has more recent statistics than those published by Interpol, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden, Finland and France follow in second to sixth place. The last places are held by Germany, Austria and Greece. Finland and Spain seem to hold the highest rate for murder, while the UK and Denmark are those with the highest figures in crimes of physical violence (rape, bodily harm, robbery).

However, Ioakimoglou, who conducted research for the V-Project Consultancy Research Institute, says that Greeks are the most insecure of all Europeans. They rank as having the greatest fear of crime among their peers.

One factor that has a strong influence on perception of crime is the mass media. In view of the Olympic Games that will take place in Athens this August, the media have been pointing out inefficiencies in security, leading some to worry that the country cannot deal with threats.

Greece has invested 597m euros in security for the Games, the highest amount for any single event ever. The security forces for the Olympics are comprised of 70,000 men, not including the Army.

This has not stopped 21 per cent of the Greek population from worrying about a possible terrorist strike. However, Public Order Minister Georgios Floridis, having co-ordinated with intelligence agencies from the United States, the United Kingdom, Israel, France, Germany and other countries, has expressed confidence that nothing could penetrate the security net.

------------------------

Next time back up your garbage or you will be taken out with it.

[Destro]

I don't understand how Greeks - it seems all of them smoke - can smoke so much and still have cancer rates so low they make Americans look like they live in radioactive dumps by comparison.

Greek wine? olives? fish diet? They eat as much as a New Orleans resident and are skinnier too.

[longtermmemmory]

Actually the cities are way cleaner than they were twenty years ago. Thessaloniki, Larisa, Pirgos, Sparta, and even Athens long ago began beautification campaigns that have succeeded. The smaller cities have even borrowed. Broken concrete has been replaced with pavers.

In athens the new metro is actually (gasp!) useful. They also have it staffed with cleaning crew.

As for condemning the "macho culture", that has nothing to do with the job market. The minimum wage in Greece is about 450 euros A MONTH. Hard to live like a European when you are paid like a Greek.

Pre-EU many Greeks were able to go to Germany for good jobs. Those are gone due to the non-recession recession. As for students it depends on their field. The language schools are all doing brisk business. Greece is still breaking out of its agrarian ecconomy. How many young people here in the states would relish the idea of being a tiny farmer? (tiny in comparison to the USA's farms) It was not until the 1990's that you could even get a proper home mortgage. Land records were downright PRIMITIVE until recently.

The EU was supposed to represent opportunity. The adopting of the Euro was supposed to knock the dollar out so al the global proseperity would magically flow to the EU. The stalling of the EU ecconomy, for various reasons, hurts.

You absolutly right in stating it is not America's fault. Not our fault their merchant fleet is rusting in port. Not our fault socialism a failure by design. Not our fault the EU is stuck in recession. Not our fault the their government will tax an individual up the wazoo in the name of "harmonization" with the rest of EU members.

I have not taken a survey of Greek Toilets, but they have indoor plumbing since you were last there. They have long ago replaced the european style porcelan hole in the floor set up. If you stay in Athens, do go to the rooftop restaurant of the Titania hotel, even for just drinks. At night is has music and super romantic view of the Acropolis.

[longtermmemmory]

Would you like to know a secret? Many Greeks smoke the way any ordinary person has an occasional drink. In other words they smoke one cigaret a week or just on a rare occasion if they are out. (Not the addictive behavior the tobacco nazis would have you think.) This is obviously NOT the majority but it does add to the number of people who answer "yes" to "do you smoke?"

As for eating as much as New Orleans. My theory is the constant walking to go anywhere AND the fact that during casual debates the body gets animated and the hands go a-flapping like they are preparing for takeoff. (that and ingesting enough cafine to power a rocket to mars and back, DAILY)

[correctthought]

Like I said, Greece... lowest standard of living in Europe.

What wasn't said was that I quoted the movie Time Bandits... to see if anyone would catch on. Guess not.

Anyway, the joke was lost in this series of posts. Sigh.