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A nasty surprise awaits the middle class come tax day
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | January 31, 2004

Posted on 02/01/2004 6:12:04 AM PST by sarcasm

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To: BIGZ

FLAT TAX, FLAT TAX, FLAT TAX.
The whole tax code sucks.

Flat round or square, doesn't change a thing. If its an income tax, the taxable income portion has to be separated from non taxable returns of capital and Congress controls those rules called deductions and allowences. The tax rate schedule is just a lookup, a flat rate on what is taxable does not make the calculations, accounting and reporting any less arduous nor less complex.

I suggest you read this before deciding the so called "Flat Tax" is such a great deal:

Flat Tax as Seen by a Tax Preparer
by Vern Hoven

If you want to really end the game, repeal all income and payroll taxes and go to pure consumption tax.

Thomas Hobbes from Leviathan

Such a tax does not require anything more than to pay a flat rate on a retail purchase. No individual accounting for income or expenditures or income tax returns. No IRS breathing over the backs of every family in the nation.

John Linder in the House & Saxby Chambliss Senate, offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a pure consumption tax:

H.R.25
SPONSOR: Rep Linder, John (introduced 01/7/2003)
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

S.1493
Sponsor: Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] (introduced 7/30/2003)
Title: A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer: http://www.fairtax.org to see what the bill's authors have to say.

I suggest you look into them.

141 posted on 02/02/2004 7:47:16 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Trust but Verify

The average taxpayer does not need to know what's in 87,000 pages of the tax code.

Hmmmm! And just how does the average taxpayer determine that with out first investigating it, and watching what comes out of Congress and treasury regulations each year that change the rules of the game?

Afterall, it one cannot properly apply any deductions applicable to them, unless they find them in the first place, or know about them when the rules change. Heck you can't even be sure last years deduction is available in this year's return unless you go back and make sure it hasn't been repealed, or the code reference changed.

142 posted on 02/02/2004 8:02:02 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Old Professer
I don't think that you understand the situation. Small company stock shares are "restricted". In effect, you can not sell them at all. You can not use them as collateral for a loan. You can not trade them for a house or a pile of gold or even for a dollar. That doesn't matter to the IRS. Because on paper the shares would be "worth" millions of dollars, and the AMT tax would be calculated based on the exercise price for the paper, but it would be impossible to sell any of the paper to pay for that tax. And, I don't have a spare million dollars in my wallet to pay the tax. So, the idiotic, insidious AMT laws have forced me into a situation where it may be necessary for me to lose literally millions of dollars in value that I have worked for for almost five years, simply because the tax laws were written by despicable "soak the rich" (and everybody else) Communist thugs.
143 posted on 02/02/2004 9:14:44 PM PST by Zeppo
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To: Paul C. Jesup
"Actually, I suggest we force those who work for the IRS do their own taxes long hand without a computer."

You are too cruel! :-)


144 posted on 02/02/2004 9:21:09 PM PST by pepperdog (God Bless and Protect our Troops)
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To: Trust but Verify
What, you might ask?

How about $16,000 in medical bills that my insurance didn't cover when I hemorraghed in my 32nd week and my premature, dying daughter was rushed to a hospital that was "out of network"?

Or donations to charities and the church, which need to be thoroughly documented in the event of an audit?

Or the money we pay for my son's Bible School, which is counted as "daycare" while I'm at work?

Or the expenses my husband lays out for his job (hundreds of dollars in custom tools, steel tipped boots, etc.) that his employer will not reimburse him for - even though they are required and help him do his job more efficiently?

Or the expenses to haul everything we owned halfway across the country, to the Great State of Texas, when the cost of living in New York was too darn oppressive for middle class folks?

I know a girl who is a struggling, single mother. If she decides to go back to college, I, as a taxpayer, will foot part of her bill for full paid tuition, full daycare while she's in school, full rent, full utilities, food stamps, a transportation allowance, and medical care for her family. Her cost? $300.00 for books for the semester.

Given that I had to hit up the Bank of Mom and Dad, earned three academic scholarships, grants, and needed student loans for my last year of college, I have little sympathy when she whines about "The Government" not giving her the $300.00 for books. Or the fact that while I PAY PAY PAY every year, taxes every time I turn around of some kind, she gets MORE BACK from the system than she puts in because of tax credits, to the tune of $3,000 a year.

If you run a home-based business, watch out! You are in some serious trouble with massive paperwork!

Give me the flat tax. I may pay more, but at least I know everyone else is paying their portion, too!

Sorry I went off on a rant, TBV. It wasn't directed at you, but at the ridiculously unfair process in general.

145 posted on 02/02/2004 9:37:26 PM PST by TheWriterInTexas (With God's Grace, All Things Are Possible)
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To: AMDG&BVMH
You have tree farms...?
146 posted on 02/02/2004 9:38:24 PM PST by The Coopster
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To: The Coopster
Re: tree farms.

Yes. (I said farms because they are not all in the same exact place, but they are small and "growing" in two senses; we try to plant more trees each year, and keep the ones in the ground growing!!) Hardwoods, bl. walnut, oaks, etc. We are in the American Tree Farmer group, but on the small end acerage-wise.

I always say that any environmentalist who hasn't personally planted over a thousand trees personally, has no right to be lecturing to others!

Let me know to what extent you are interested in trees (and tree farms accounting? ;) )
147 posted on 02/03/2004 6:53:28 AM PST by AMDG&BVMH
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