Guard survey hints at exodus

USA Today ^ | January 23, 2004 | Dave Moniz,

[2banana]

WASHINGTON

[Ramius]

Dang. I wuz just gettin' up to speed. :-)

[adam_az]

"Please. You KNOW that the odds of combat duty were MUCH LOWER for those who got into the Guard than for those who didn't avoid the draft. "

I also know that there are much easier and safer jobs in the National Guard than flying a fighter jet. Of course this was the cold war, Vietnam could have escalated easily, and then he would have been flying against Soviet and Chinese jocks. After all, this was just a few years after the Cuban Missile Crisis.

If he really wanted to use his fathers influence to avoid risk, why didn't he get a deferment, or even try to get one? Why didn't he get a desk job, or serve as a journalist with a bodyguard like Algore did? You are really stretching it.

Theres a good timeline of his service here http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

As for his records being incomplete, there are many on FR who served at the same time whose records are also incomplete without the benefit of a Senator father. Occam's razor.

[adam_az]

I clicked abuse on his multiple posts of the same message.

I'm sure he will go off to LP and complain that he was "censored" for having a contrary opinion.

That's idiotic, of course... He was narked on for being a boorish cretin.

[XBob]

5 - Guard troops serve for 'emergencies'. Permanant callups for war of reserves because xlinton demonRATS decimited the military are not 'emergencies', when they become SOP.

[Ramius]

Roger that, and while my troll-alarm was going off I do still enjoy getting out the long knives every now and then.

Dang, now I can't re-sheath my long knives without blood on them. This is gonna hurt. I hate it when this happens. :-)

Regards,

[XBob]

9 - "GWB was flying a very tempremental hi performance fighter aircraft, the F-102 interceptor. It had a disturbingly high accident rate. The odds of W being injured or killed in a training accident were probably higher than REMF Al Gore's of being hurt or killed in combat."

True - I had an ANG F-102 fall out of the sky (not shot down) on me in Vietnam, had to go in on a SAR and rescue the pilot behind enemy lines. (We had a hard time keeping them aloft in the states)

Gore was a reporter with a body guard for about 4 months, behind the lines in Vietnam.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

True. The century series ( F-100, 101, 105, etc. ) aircraft had an odd "quirk" where they would blow up flying straight and level. Was because of design flaws in the fuel system and engines. They got it worked out in the F-106 and F-4.

If someone's father did have enough influence to keep them out of the war by putting them in the National Guard, then Texas may have not been the best choice. Full F-102 units from the Ohio ANG and another state I can't remember ( but it wasn't Texas ) served in Vietnam. If another unit was needed, a state that hadn't been yet would be called next. Texas most likely would have been it. Ohio and the other state ANG's would have been the safest place as they had already rotated in and out of Vietnam.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

In the early 1990's, speculation was that Gulf War I deployments would finish the Guard and Reserve for many of the reasons listed here. They lived through it just fine.

[arm958]

In the early 1990's, speculation was that Gulf War I deployments would finish the Guard and Reserve for many of the reasons listed here. They lived through it just fine.

Despite the myth that Guard and Reserve members take a financial dive when they are activated, many earn more in uniform than as civilians. A lot of them don't mind the deployments and even volunteer repeatedly. If you notice, the active duty soldiers are taking most of the casualties. That's not to say Guardsmen and Reservists aren't being killed and wounded; they are. However, they are more likely than active duty soldiers to be deployed in rear areas, such as Kuwait.

[tj005]

...My vote will go to the guy most likely to win who wants to defend america before we get shot at, slow down the murder of babies, and cut my taxes.....3


I totally agree

[Jim Robinson]

clonib aka Thusspake, bilnoc, conlib2, Conlib, conlib4, conlib3, Mr. Z, Zardoz, et al, nuked for no particular reason at all. Just randomly nuked.

[Criminal Number 18F]

If you notice, the active duty soldiers are taking most of the casualties.

Er, they're about 76% of the deployed forces, and have taken about 70% of the casualties -- I'd call that about even.

He's an example of one of those goof off Guard guys. 20th Group buried SSG Roy Wood in Florida this week. He died in a car crash, a definite hazard in Afghanistan now as more people get cars and learn how to drive by bouncing off things. Roy not only gave up a job as an emergency room physician to volunteer to go to Afghanistan, he gave up a Reserve commission as a major in order to go in his former enlisted job, Special Forces medic. This is how Roy's family gets to remember him:

The gentle fellow showing the Bronze Star Medal is Brigadier General Dave Burford, deputy commander of the US Army Special Forces Command. Dave comes out of 20th Group himself; he commanded a team, a company, a battalion and the Group before being dragged onto active duty (before 9/11). He's not always this gentle. The serious young man listening to the general is Roy Jr. Roy Wood Jr. is six years old and he's going to take care of his mother Hana and his baby sister Caroline. After all, Caroline's only three.

The Guard guys who served in combat are generally pretty well-adjusted and will not be making too many decisions to punch out. Many, most of them are willing to go again. The guys that were activated to guard airports or reservoirs, or were assigned to guard duty at emptied Stateside posts and treated like crap by the remaining Active units on the base, are history.

I've served for at least eight years in each of the components (active, guard and reserve) and I've seen good soldiers and slugs in each as well. One weird thing about this war is that while half the Army (active and reserve-component) is on a desperate war footing, half of it at least continues to idle along at a peacetime pace. ITEM: there are still 47,000 do-nothings in enlisted CMF 71. A measure of their quality (or lack of the same) is that not only was Roy Wood's pay screwed up, Chief of Staff General Schoomaker reports that his pay has been screwed up on every pay stub since he returned to active duty.

An awful lot of the people in the Army, including most of the Combat Service Support branches, are idling there, as some kind of an alternative to collecting welfare. THIS is what Rumsfeld wants to overhaul and sensible people in all components back him to the hilt.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Criminal Number 18F]

Just randomly nuked

See, that's the kind of randomness that makes physicists rub their chins and wonder about "intelligent design."

d..o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[cherry]

Thye made their entry with both eyes wide open, if they expected all for them and naught for the country, cry me a river."

oh, I think you will be crying when there is no longer enough Guard people to put out fires, patrol streets, and fight in wars...

then they can come for your son and dtr in a draft.....

[cherry]

"some macho G.I. who did serious service."

my macho husband when he was active worked in a "lab" Monday thru Friday and had beer parties right after work on Fridays....

I am too familiar with the military to think that every job is a life or death situation....most jobs are just that ......jobs....

His Guard unit was more physically able, more tested, more organized, and competant I think than his previous active military post...

that is why units like his in the Guard would beat active duty units of similar size hands down in competition....

[Jotmo]

Thanks, but no thanks.

From the looks of it, this thread didn't turn out much better.

I've never seen so many deleted comments.

[bushfamfan]

It's always interesting to hear the Demonrats belittle Bush for his National Guard service. He could have at least taken a desk job. Funny that he'd want to pilot a jet like that if he was all for keeping his arse safe. It backs up his pattern of wanting to do what his father did in flying. He's virtually followed the path of his father his entire life.

[Thunder 6]

"The guys that were activated to guard airports or reservoirs, or were assigned to guard duty at emptied Stateside posts and treated like crap by the remaining Active units on the base, are history."

This bears repeating.

regards,

[fnord]

ITEM: there are still 47,000 do-nothings in enlisted CMF 71. A measure of their quality (or lack of the same) is that not only was Roy Wood's pay screwed up, Chief of Staff General Schoomaker reports that his pay has been screwed up on every pay stub since he returned to active duty.

ITEM: Pay is currently processed by soldiers in the 73 CMF. fyi, the 71 and 75 CMF are realigning to 42 series. Although I guess to you they will still be "idling".

An awful lot of the people in the Army, including most of the Combat Service Support branches, are idling there, as some kind of an alternative to collecting welfare

Nice blanket insult. So you want an Army without medics, engineers, transportation, ATC, supply servies, finance, etc? Yeah, that would be a refreshing change ...

[arm958]

Er, they're about 76% of the deployed forces, and have taken about 70% of the casualties -- I'd call that about even.

I stand corrected.