[The Westerner]

Well, I appreciate the fact that you withheld the vitriol that I usually get, although being told it's all "me, me, me,..." is a good bit of name-calling. At any rate, don't be credulous. I really do think this way. I detect at the root of your argument a problem with sex as such. Why are you angry that a woman can't keep her legs crossed? First that implies that there is something wrong with sex. Second that implies that in all cases, an unwanted pregnancy is the result of promiscuity.

What I'm really trying to understand about pro-lifers like you who are so emotionally invested in another person's life, is why? There must be at least 5 extremely critical to the future of this Republic issues that deserve such emotion and scrutiny. Why do pro-lifers get so vitriolic when they don't know the people? It's like you imagine the fetus to be a person with a rational, conscious mind aware of its own destruction. I know the argument is that these are "living" humans, yes, so is a every other species' unborn fetus, eggs, etc. Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps?

[netmilsmom]

Let me take this point by point...to begin with I apologize for the "me, me, me." crap. It was uncalled for and very childish.

>>I detect at the root of your argument a problem with sex as such. Why are you angry that a woman can't keep her legs crossed?<<
Women, who actually have no natural instinct to have sex, only to procreate, open themselves to many psychological problems using sex for recreation. Women's minds are wired to take on sex partners to make children and therefore we go for the best of our male counterparts. We expect something back and many times it doesn't happen. Men on the otherhand are wired to have sex with as many females as they can (in order to better the chances of passing on their genes). Women who allow this to happen, even encourage it, end up with STD's and unwanted pregnancies. No birth control is 100% effective and STD's can live on the scrotum which are not covered by a condom.


>>First that implies that there is something wrong with sex. Second that implies that in all cases, an unwanted pregnancy is the result of promiscuity.<<
Nothing is wrong with sex, it's great. But there are many things a couple can do to come to orgasm beside intercourse.
Not every pregnancy is the result of promiscuity but every natural pregnancy is the result of sex. As long as Abortion is used as birth control, why worry?

>>What I'm really trying to understand about pro-lifers like you who are so emotionally invested in another person's life, is why? There must be at least 5 extremely critical to the future of this Republic issues that deserve such emotion and scrutiny. Why do pro-lifers get so vitriolic when they don't know the people? <<
From someone who worked in a Psychiatrist's office and personally knew women who were emotionally devistated by their "Choice", it's because I feel for people. Society has made this all so easy without giving these poor women the full disclosure of what may happen after. I was "pro-choice" until I met a couple women and one man who showed me the aftermath. No man is an island, we need to care about each other. All the facts need to be told to a woman. Let them see the Ultrasound of that "fetus" and see how many woman still make the choice.


>>It's like you imagine the fetus to be a person with a rational, conscious mind aware of its own destruction.<<
The human brain is a wonderful thing, we only use 10% of it. Brain waves can be detected in the unborn at about forty to forty-three days after conception. You, nor anyone else can tell what is going on there.


>>I know the argument is that these are "living" humans, yes, so is a every other species' unborn fetus, eggs, etc.<<
A human zygote will not be anything but a human being. No matter how much a woman tries she will not give birth to anything else. Not a puppy, a chick or a kitten. It is human.

>>Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps?<<
Honestly, isn't that a silly question?

[MHGinTN]

In your ghoulish wisdom, you offered, "I really do think this way. ... It's like you imagine the fetus to be a person with a rational, conscious mind aware of its own destruction." No, and that is typical of you dehumanizing ghouls, you try to define what it is that pro-lifers are speaking out to protect, as if your definition (which is nothing but your arbitrary application of when the individual alive human being is of worth sufficient for you to grant it the right to life). What a piece of work you are, arbitrarily deciding that only thinking beings have worth such that they deserve the unalienable right to the life they are already living! [I sure hope you have nothing to do with caring for your elderly and infirm grandparents or parents, cause your beliefs are a killer!]

Then you go on to assert, "I know the argument is that these are "living" humans, yes, so is a every other species' unborn fetus, eggs, etc. Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps?" And with that piece of rhetorical shock spittle you expose your self as having no more value for unborn humans than for unborn goats. Not at all surprising that you are so dead of heart, but it is surprising that you would be so open about it! [Is Peter Singer your demigod hero?]

You must find FR uncomfortable, what with these ad hom attacks like I've throwing at you ... perhaps your fellow ghouls at the DU or Moveon.org would be more worshipful of your soulless crap, maybe you could even get the 'christians for Dean' to embrace you since they prove to have no discernment either.

[cupcakes]

>>It's like you imagine the fetus to be a person with a rational, conscious mind aware of its own destruction.<<

So a newborn may not be aware of a mother who raps it up in a plastic bag and disposes of it. Is that acceptable to you also?
AND BTW, the fetus is a PERSON. It is neither a peice of just the mother or just the father. It is a unique individual with its own genetic makeup so different from its mother that the mother's immune system needs to be masked during pregnancy by this growing life to not reject it. The fetus' consiousness is made known by its individual desire to survive. It can send another human beings body on a whole roller coaster ride just to ensure its survival. Perhaps at that point it is not the consiousness you and I are aware of as we sit at our computers, but it surely has the wish to survive at that point even on basic hormonal levels.
There was a great essay out recently on Freepdom that scientifically did much to point out the individuality of the fetus vs. its host, the mother.
YOu are perplexed by those that are pro-life and care for a life that you believe is without human consiousness, yet I, and I'm sure others on this thread, stand here perplexed(and disgusted) by those who don't think the weakest and most helpless among us deserve a voice no matter what their current awareness or conciousness. I see pro-life about so much more than just being against abortion. It is about seeing hope, potential, and valuing human life. Pro-abortion seems to be little more than squelching hope and potential for the sake of status quo and discounting the value of each and every human life.

[Brad’s Gramma]

What I'm really trying to understand about pro-lifers like you who are so emotionally invested in another person's life, is why?

If I saw that your life was in danger, and I had the means to save you....using your logic, I shall have to let you die. Right? Actually, using your logic, I shall have to ADVOCATE the bad guy killing you. And then be proud of my actions????? Don't think so, Buddy. No sireee...I'd do whatever I could to defend even you.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps?

That's flat out goofy. Sorta borderline stupid, in my opinion.

[ohioWfan]

"Fetuses".......that is pre-born babies feel pain, Westerner.

They are mutilated, and tortured because they are getting in the way of the comfort and ease of their mother.

The fact that it doesn't bother you indicates a seared conscience. Pray for it to return. You're going to need it sooner or later.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

**Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps? **

You're kidding, right?

[Brad’s Gramma]

I wrote a response to you in #73.

You originally wrote: What I'm really trying to understand about pro-lifers like you who are so emotionally invested in another person's life, is why?

And I wrote to you.... If I saw that your life was in danger, and I had the means to save you....using your logic, I shall have to let you die. Right?

And I'm waiting to see if you accidently didn't see the post...please answer.

[ohioWfan]

I know the argument is that these are "living" humans, yes, so is a every other species' unborn fetus, eggs, etc. Why not the exact same sensitivity over killing nests of wasps?

I know that your feelings were hurt because someone called you 'ghoulish,' but just in case you have enough courage to revisit this thread, I just want to remind you of what you said.

You are callous, illogical, and advocating the murder of human beings. You have compared the unborn child, with its functioning brain, and heart, fingers and toes, nerve endings, and potential for great things, to a NEST OF WASPS!

In my entire life, I have NEVER read words so ugly, and evil. NEVER.

And yet YOU are whining at our reaction, and have left with your tail between your legs.

That makes you an evil COWARD.