***The Courage Of George W. Bush***

Stardate: 0401.17

[The Wizard]

As I listen to the jabberings of the misc. democrats who are attacking the President, those who were in the services, et al, I always remember one sight I will never forget the rest of my life......

A few days after 9-11 when no one knew what was happening and who was behind it, and no one was really sure if it was over, I watched George Bush, all alone, walk out to the mound at Yankee Stadium, in front of 55 thousand people and as clean a target as ever existed, show the world that America, (at least this American) wasn't going to be intimidated.....and there, all alone, no SS, no NYPD, nothing, he threw out that first ball.......

You could hear America stop breathing until he was off the field.......

That took more guts than anything any of these pathetic weasels ever did in their lives.......

I will never forget that.....ever......

[Wolfstar]

Without question, Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of the 2nd half of the 20th Century. I don't know that it's possible for me to admire the man more than I already do. Certainly even the so-called real conservatives (among whom swarthyguy probably places himself) around here can't question President Reagan's conservative credentials.

Yet it was Ronald Wilson Reagan who promoted and signed the first-ever illegal alien amnesty law in American history. Why did he do it? He "betrayed" the conservative base, didn't he. Was he really a "RINO?" Of course not! Like all presidents, Reagan called it like he saw it. To him, it was the humane thing to do.

Do I agree with his decision. Heck no! I think it was the greatest mistake of his presidency. Not only did it establish the amnesty precedent, but it just encouraged a greater flood of illegal immigration. Nevertheless, this one mistake does not diminish the greatness of his overall presidency, nor of my admiration for the man. I voted for him twice and would eagerly have voted for him a third time had it been possible. Reagan and the first amnesty — an example worth remembering of the ability to strongly disagree with a president on a matter of policy while also strongly admiring the man and his overall achievements.

[lonevoice]

And we know something else that perhaps you can't quite perceive from the heights of your lofty skepticism. We know that the eyes of a seared city and wounded nation were on that lone figure that night. We know that his effort to throw a perfect pitch, which even included practicing beforehand, and to personify defiance on behalf of New Yorkers and all of the American people took a kind of uncommon courage rarely seen in world leaders. His desire to go out in public and do something so quintessentially American — and to do it with such dignity — was the personification of hope for a shaken people.

Beautifully stated, and a beautiful and much needed thread. I thank you today from the bottom of my heart for this.

[swarthyguy]

>>Yet it was Ronald Wilson Reagan who promoted and signed the first-ever illegal alien amnesty law in American history.

Well, that amnesty certainly stopped illegal immigration.

So, doing the same thing again, that was proven ineffective 18 years ago, is now commendable? Two wrongs make a right?

It's you guys who're insulting those who disagree with Bush, by sarcastically calling them "real" conservatives, insinuating racism and Nazi tactics to those who disagree with amnesty, telling us not to vote for Bush, the votes aren't needed, and otherwise engaging in verbal inanities such as DU Troll, Dean supporter, Agenda bearer, Bush hater.

I thought calling people names and assigning them labels was a hallmark of the Left and the Democrats when it comes to any discussion of immigration.

Now I see it being repeated here.

Why is your calling people racist who disagree with Bush AOK but not when the Democrats do the same.

It certainly is nice, I suppose, being called Racist by both Democrats and Republicans.

You own hateful and vitriolic rhetoric drives more people away than it convinces anybody.

But, of course, you don't see that.

[Wolfstar]

You are most welcome, lonevoice. On your behalf and mine, I'm thanking The Wizard for starting this great thread.

[Wolfstar]

Firstly, swarthyguy, please don't confuse me with anyone else on this forum. Nowhere in anything I wrote did I call you a racist. Secondly, it might help if you got down off your soapbox for a moment and pay attention to what I actually did write in the post to which you responded.

I consider Reagan's amnesty the greatest mistake of his presidency. I am opposed to the current Bush proposal, and will do all I can to help defeat it in the Congress.

There are two points to my using Reagan's amnesty as an example. The first is to illustrate that one can vigorously disagree with a particular policy while still greatly admiring a president's overall record. The second is to illustrate that even the most genuinely conservative president of our times, Ronald Reagan, agreed to policies that are not conservative.

[k2blader]

Best kitschy vanity of 2004?

[Miss Marple]

Let me also recommend The Faith of George W. Bush by Stephen Mansfield. It is an excellent telling of how the President came to be a man of faith, and if you are not familiar with some of the ins and outs of the Protestant and Evangelical communities, it will help you understand those as well.

I want to thank you again for leading us into a more vocally supportive stance on President Bush. I had grown weary with the insults and accusations, and had pretty much confined myself to a few threads. Thank you so much for your leadership on this thread!

[ohioWfan]

Be honest with me for a minute, if you are capable of that, swarthy.

Tell me that you actually read my post 193, and your mind actually made the cataclysmic jump to what you posted back to me.

Tell me that what you said makes sense to you as a response to what I said.

I have never seen such an illogical, nonsensical post in all my days at FR........and that's saying something!

[swarthyguy]

See, that's what I mean.

First you start smarmy then throw in a zinger.

Your first line is typical. Such BS.
Guess I'm not capable of honesty.

So why do you insist on replying to one one line post way back when.

This is silly.

[ohioWfan]

I'm not sure swarthy can read very well, Wolfstar.

He imagines that we are saying things that are not even close to the words on the screen.

I don't think it's worth the effort to try to have a coherent discussion of issues with him........

[ohioWfan]

Excuse me. Answer my question.

Do you really think what you said to me made ANY sense as a response to what I posted to you?

[swarthyguy]

Ecxuse y'self. You have stopped making sense a long time ago.

Rantings like yours are bush league, y'know.

[ohioWfan]

One more try.

I talked about God's love, and faith in Jesus Christ, and YOU responded with some nonsense about my thinking President Bush was divine.

You make no sense.

Do you not see how preposterous your responses are??

[swarthyguy]

>>I talked about God's love, and faith in Jesus Christ,

Well good for you.

I've no desire to get locked up in a theological discussion.

Cheers.

[ohioWfan]

Well, if you had no desire to get into a theological discussion, why did you bring up the divinity of George W. Bush?

Let's be consistent here, OK?

At any rate, you've proven to all lurkers how totally illogical and irrational you are, so I'll bid you adieu, and hope we don't meet again for a very long while.......

[swarthyguy]

<<<why did you bring up the divinity of George W. Bush?

Can't let it go can you.

The reference was to the vitual divinity of George Bush, as exemplified by you, who cannot take any criticism of him.

That's why I compared him to a deity like status among the likes of you.

And the pouncing on of any who dare say anything that makes Bush less than infallible.

Comprende?

[Wolfstar]

Thanks for the recommendation. I read a lot — at least a book a week unless I'm in a particularly busy period at work. As I said in another post, I was raised a Roman Catholic, my father's faith, although my mother was a Christian but not a Catholic. As an adult, although I've retained my belief in God the basic tenets of Christianity, I don't adhere to any particular organized religion. So "The Faith of George W. Bush" may be helpful to me.

As for your kind thanks, coming from someone as involved and dedicated as you, Miss Marple, I am overwhelmed.

[ohioWfan]

Yes, I understand it well.

When faced with the loss of an argument, rather than admit you are wrong, you say stupid things.

When you accused me (and others on this thread) of believing President Bush to be divine, you admitted your defeat by lashing out with irrational, indefensible, and yes, stupid attacks.

For the record, the FACT is that my respect for the President is due in large part to the fact that we serve the same God, and are seeking to be obedient to him. Far from believing him to be infallible, I know that he is a sinner, saved by grace, who has yielded his life to a Holy and Perfect God.

I pray for him, that he will continue listening to God's voice, and that he will not be tempted to yield to the corruption that often comes with power.

And that is the last thing I will say to you, on this thread, or hopefully ever.

[swarthyguy]

You keep threateniing to not interact with me.

I view it a promise and I wish you would.

I'm not wrong.

Religion, the last refuge of the Scoundrel. Or was that patriotism?

[Wolfstar]

I don't think it's worth the effort to try to have a coherent discussion of issues with him........

You are right, of course. I just always keep in the back of my mind the fact that there are many more lurkers than posters who visit FR. Sometimes the swarthy types make good foils when one is actually trying to talk to others who may happen upon a post.