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"[...] stands little chance of enactment [...]"

In a perfect world, of course: the posting of this story would mean that all the online nellies, yellowbellies and faux "conservatives" all darting about on these boards and whinnying to the effect that "Bush is a war criminal from HELL!" and suchlike would finally just settle the @#$% down, for a moment or two; take a deep, communal breath; go to their respective Happy Places, within themselves; and cease embarrassing themselves (and this board) with their pop-eyed hysterics.

As I said: in a perfect world...

Well Kent, you are trapped in Liberal Seattle, I am trapped in Third World Hudson County, NJ. This season I couldn't find a copy of "The Cat in the Hat" that was not in both English and Spanish. I'm horrified at what Bush has proposed, not so much at the proposal itself but at all the many, many issues it left unaddressed.

I, for one, do not think the entirety of our immigration problem consists of how to legalize dishwashers, or make sure there are enough chambermaid for hotels. But you'd never know it from reading Bush's proposal. If that was the whole problem, it would be well addressed by his proposal, it isn't and that's why it's getting opposition from all sides.

So, yeah, let's go to the happy place and be glad there will be no substantial legislation on this this year. Let us hope that this half-baked campaign souffle will not keep W from getting re-elected. And let us devoutly hope that this serious issue will be addressed in a serious way sometime in 2005.

But if you are not living in one of the states that are "high-impacted" by immigration, legal and illegal, just be aware that in many places in the US today you would look around you and doubt you were in this country at all. If you need a place to check out, I reccommend West New York, NJ. While you are there try and find ONE SIGN in English. I DO NOT want to live in a Latin Civilization. The Hispanics can learn English as well as any other group, but if they don't have to, why will they?

Further, look at the campaigns to import whole villages of Africans to towns in New England, when the town resists this burden, they are denounced (gleefully!) as racists.

I have seen many people who feel the way I do denounced as racists on these threads. I am not a racist, and up until 9/11 I was practically an open border advocate. On that day I realized that our foolish failure to enforce our laws had permitted people bent on wholesale murder and mayhem into our country. People who want to kill all the Hispanics in West New York as well as you and me. Bush's proposal does not even address this, except to give some hollow promise that "the borders will be protected". He doesn't even discuss student immigration, which was the source of the 9/11 terrorists.

They all better go back to the drawing board. And I hope Bush and Co. are feeling the heat over our dissatisfaction with his poorly conceived plan.

"In a perfect world, of course: the posting of this story would mean that all the online nellies, yellowbellies and faux "conservatives" all darting about on these boards and whinnying to the effect that "Bush is a war criminal from HELL!" and suchlike would finally just settle the @#$% down, for a moment or two; take a deep, communal breath; go to their respective Happy Places, within themselves; and cease embarrassing themselves (and this board) with their pop-eyed hysterics."

There is certainly some truth to what you posted here. But there are two things that weren't helpful about your post. First, the #$%!. Yeah, sometimes we let that go and it is certainly better than throwing the f-bomb, but when we are trying to clean things up it is helpful if people avoid doing it.

Second, starting a thread with a statement about how one group is 'faux conservatives' is bound to lead to the very type of flame war that we can do without. There are undoubtably faux conservatives on that side. There are just as undoubtably faux conservatives on the other side. Agent provocateurs stir up crap from all sides. Maybe there is more on one side than the other, maybe not, but starting a thread by going down that path just invites the thread to be a Bushie/anti-Bushie flamewar over who are 'real conservatives'. Maybe those arguments are needed, but certainly not on most immigration threads. It ends up overwhelming the topic.

Thanks