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To: Quix
Normally I'd agree...

But Mr. Robertson has a track record of making pronouncements and prophecies, allegedly given by God, that have failed to come to pass. The end of the world in 1982 comes to mind...

Actually, I'm glad he was wrong about that one!

140 posted on 01/02/2004 11:09:52 PM PST by Tim Osman (A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. - Bertrand de Jouvenel)
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To: Tim Osman; LanaTurnerOverdrive; All; Marysecretary; maranatha; Brad's Gramma; patriciaruth
But Mr. Robertson has a track record of making pronouncements and prophecies, allegedly given by God, that have failed to come to pass. The end of the world in 1982 comes to mind...

I had a close Christian sister in the past who was part Native American. She had always had a close, intimate relationship with God and heard from Him fairly clearly fairly routinely.

She RARELY said "GOD SAYS . . . " WHEN she did say it that way--it ALWAYS came true--though in God's time.

She OFTEN said things like: "I have an impression . . . " "I feel . . . " etc. She was about 80% right in those cases.

I've heard Robertson say a lot of tings like the latter. I don't personally recall him saying THUS SAYS THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL [specifically . . . ] Perhaps he has.

I have certainly heard him say intemperate, unwise things. I've plenty often been guilty of the same thing. I dare say,

EVERY CRITIC HEREON OF WHAT HE HAS SAID--HAS ****ALSO**** BEEN GUILTY OF SAYING UNWISE, INTERMPERATE THINGS.

And certainly virtually every preacher I know of in ANY denomination has asserted, not only The Gospel, but also a LONG LIST of personal opinions (and idiosyncratic constructions on reality) AS THOUGH they were unalterable fact straight from Mt Sinai WHETHER THEY WORDED IT THAT WAY, OR NOT.

THE BIBLE INSTRUCTS US ALL to declare . . . "IF THE LORD WILLS, we will go there and do that tomorrow." How many bother to obey the Lord in such statements? Arrogance of Pat's ilk and degree abounds everywhere in Christendom--under different shadings and whitewashes and different customary phrases.

That kind of error, arrogance, misspeaking, hogwash is NOT AT ALL UNIQUE to Pat. It's just that it is framed, couched, labeled differently (I'd say less honestly) by other Chrisitan leaders.

THE BIBLE SAYS THAT WE ALL SEE THROUGH A GLASS DARKLY. I believe that some spiritual leaders hear God above average, more clearly, more accurately than the rest of us. BUT NO ONE HAS THE WHOLE PICTURE. GOD SEEMS STEADFASTLY INTENT ON US NEEDING EACH OTHER TO WORK OUT A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE OF THE PUZZLE.

The best prophets prophecy only IN PART. Those who are most humble, most broken, most crushed, most loving tend to be more accurate as well as wiser in how and what they say.

St Paul exhorted that he wanted ALL BELIEVERS to seek to prophecy (it's not consistent with context or facts that he was only speaking about speaking forth The Gospel). It is logical that some will be beginners and some elder statesmen in growing in that gifting.

Pat has never claimed to be a prophet and I don't particularly believe that he is one. But, he may have a measure of spiritual insight above average if his prayer life supports it. He may even have some level of gifting without the office of prophet.

There are examples of Old Testament prophets missing it without being stoned. Jonah comes to mind but I think there's better examples. No, I'm not going to track them down ATT.

I don't mind extending Pat the same grace I'd like to have in such matters. I will ALSO PRAY for his wisdom to increase in terms of what he says.

CHRIST HIMSELF DECLARED THAT HIS SHEEP *WOULD KNOW* ****HIS VOICE****. He said it. He must have meant it. We are all in varying places along that continuum of learning to discern His still small voice from our own thoughts as well as from the enemy's deceptions. NONE of us does that flawlessly, to my knowledge.

All of us as individuals tend to be convinced that we construe reality; hear God; have and follow our hunches; make choices and judgments at least above average if not way above average. And all of us miss it. Most of us miss it fairly often. Some of us miss it in a big way on big issues or frequently. IT IS WISDOM ON ALL OUR PART to be charitable toward others who also miss it--UNLESS WE WANT TARRED AND FEATHERED WITH THE SAME CRITERIA AND STANDARD OF BRUSH WE WOULD USE ON PAT ROBERTSON.

Yes, saying or implying that God said this or that carries a greater degree of responsibility to be accurate than noting that one is merely voicing a personal hunch or intuition. BUT THE ARROGANCE IS LIKELY TO BE JUST AS SERIOUS IN EITHER CASE--FROM GOD'S PERSPECTIVE.

IMhO, of course.

144 posted on 01/03/2004 8:59:56 AM PST by Quix (Particularly quite true conspiracies are rarely proven until it's too late to do anything about them)
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To: Tim Osman
Billy Graham once said, years ahead of the year, that he felt Jesus was coming back by 1975.

I think a lot of Robertson's unwise pronouncements flow just from such a level of IMPRESSION/pondering as Graham's.

Neither one, as far as I know, claims to be a prophet.

164 posted on 01/11/2004 7:13:18 PM PST by Quix (Particularly quite true conspiracies are rarely proven until it's too late to do anything about them)
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