Pope wants new international order to keep peace

Reuters | January 1, 2004 | Claire Soares

[BlackElk]

Are we generous as evidenced by 45 million+ surgical abortions in our country, and hundreds of millions more by IUDs and abortifacient pills? There are those in Muslim countries who follow JP II's lead on abortion in international gatherings and who expect a higher form of morality in the West than that the USA be some sort of international Santa Claus. I wonder if the Ayatollah Khomeini was partly nspired by CNN coverage of Dykes on Bikes and the American abortion toll. The legitimate Muslim believers must be sooooo impressed by news of lavender "marriage" being advanced by our courts.

[sinkspur]

What good is "unfettered capitalism and democracy" if they destroy the eternal soul even more effectively than communism did?

They don't. But, it serves your purpose to say they do.

Wanna know what happens to Christianity when it dwells too long in oppulence, license disguised as "freedom", and wealth?

Bishop Robinsons and Father Geoghans and 85% of Catholic laity committing the mortal sins of contraception, sterilization and abortion.

Then what's your alternative, Doctor?

The Pope himself lives in a democratic country and, were it not for the cooperation between the US and Prime Minister Berlusconi, Vatican City might well be a pile of rubble right now, due to the terrorist threats against it.

Now, tell me how the Pope's pleas for "peace" will save him from animals who wish to destroy him, to make a statement?

[Polycarp IV]

what should the rich nations be doing, as a policy matter, to help the low per capita income nations increase their per capita income numbers? I assume it isn't birth control programs, so what is it?

Since our primary response IS population control programs and loans which keep third world countries third world countries, we as a nation wouldn't know, would we?

We prop up the very dictators you decry, because we can buy their strategic mineral and reserves, the cash for which they use to prop up their regimes.

Building up local infrastructure,

which combined with the type of institution JPII recommends here (as opposed to the corrupt UN he is suggesting should be dismantled) might just be a start.

[Polycarp IV]

What good is "unfettered capitalism and democracy" if they destroy the eternal soul even more effectively than communism did?

They don't. But, it serves your purpose to say they do.

Says you. But any sane Christian commentator objectively looking at this country today would say otherwise.

[sinkspur]

Then you are a more blind and prideful fool than I ever imagined.

Perhaps. But I'm not as prideful as you, who despises the very country that you draw sustenance from for you and your family.

Maybe you'd be happier in one of those Muslim countries, where abortion and contraception are outlawed, and gays are killed.

But, then, you couldn't practice your religion, could you?

Tough choice, Brian, ain't it?

[Torie]

We prop up the very dictators you decry, because we can buy their strategic mineral and reserves,P. Just who does the Pope propose we cut off, and of what, and with what consequence? Just which nations should have a regime change through economic warfare, per you of the Pope. Just what infrastructure programs should be in place that are not reasonably calculated to be looted or stripped, and where, and of what?

Airy generalities get no traction with me. Sorry about that.

[sinkspur]

Here, I thought the Vatican City-State was NOT a democratic country.

Vatican City was protected from terrorist attacks, on Christmas Eve, by Italian troops around its perimeter, and Italian Air Force cover.

The Swiss Guard ain't much help in a pinch.

[sinkspur]

But any sane Christian commentator objectively looking at this country today would say otherwise.

These sane "Christian commentators" would say that capitalism is worse than communism?

I'm not aware of any.

[onyx]

You and I have not always agreed (on matters Californian) but it is a pleasure when we may do so. I think you are OK and I hope that you don't think I am so bad either. God bless you and yours.

Nothing is more important than my faith and we share the same one. God bless you and yours also.

I think you're OK also, and besides, my guy won, and he's doing a great job thus far. :)

[Torie]

Errata cleanup:

We prop up the very dictators you decry, because we can buy their strategic mineral and reserves

Just who does the Pope propose we cut off, and of what, and with what consequence? Just which nations should have a regime change through economic warfare, per you or the Pope? Just what infrastructure programs should be in place that are not reasonably calculated to be looted or stripped, and where, and of what?

Airy generalities get no traction with me. Sorry about that.

[Polycarp IV]

Since it never occured to you that JPII sees and knows far more than you, I'm not surprised that you never read where he compares the danger to the soul of unbridled materialistic capitalism to that of communism.

[sinkspur]

I wonder if the Ayatollah Khomeini was partly nspired by CNN coverage of Dykes on Bikes and the American abortion toll.

CNN didn't come into existence until 1981.

Khomenei was inspired by the feckless Carter administration, which railed against the Shah.

Carter's reward? Khomenei's goons seized American embassy hostages and helped turn him out of office.

And why did Iran turn our hostages loose?

They were scared to death of Ronald Reagan and what he might do.

It is better for a statesman to be feared than to be loved.

[Polycarp IV]

Ever spent any time in a third world country?

[sinkspur]

But you enjoy the sport of the politics of personal destruction far more than defending the Catholic faith and its Pope

"Defending the Faith" has nothing to do with the Pope's statements on the war on terror, which statements have, of late, been lame.

You started this "personal destruction war", Brian, by calling me a fool.

Happy New Year, Brian.

[Polycarp IV]

I called you a fool Since it never occured to you that JPII sees and knows far more than you...

and in response you state thatI'm one "who despises the very country that you draw sustenance from ...you'd be happier in one of those Muslim countries, where abortion and contraception are outlawed, and gays are killed.

Still up to your old games. To you political sparring and insult are far more fun than defending the faith.

Call me whatever you like, Sink. I at least attempted to start this New Year with apology and rapproachment.

[Torie]

Asking a question to a question is a bit annoying, and not helpful. I have spent time in Mexico, and Morocco way back when. Now where does this get us exactly as far as putting together an intelligent policy, rather than just mouthing feel good "I care" and I'm better than you, because "you don't care, and feel their pain," hubristic excoriative rhetoric, reasonably calculated to attempt to assume an ersatz posture of moral superiority?

[sinkspur]

To you political sparring and insult are far more fun than defending the faith.

Defending the Faith????

Disagreeing with the Pope over his misguided foreign policy ideology has nothing to do with "the Faith."

The Holy Father is a believer in the UN, or some other international mediating organization.

Now, if that organization decides, as the UN has, to propagate family planning initiatives, then he'll scream to high heaven.

All I'm advising His Holiness to do is to be careful who he crawls into bed with.

[DeepDish]

"America no longer possesses a moral high ground from which to campaign this global war on terror."

The ground we stand on may not be "moral" to you. You may believe that it is not "high" enough. Well the ground I stand on is acres in size, it has a subsoil layer 5 or 6 sories tall consisting of building rubble, overlain with a topsoil made from the corpses of 3000 innocent human beings. The hill is called ground zero and from there I can see all the way to Afghanistan and Iraq.