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"If the LP was really interested in advancing libertarian thought they would try rather harder to reach out to conservatives - and the majority of Americans - and first work on areas where Libertarian philosophy is widely held; tax cuts, gun rights, limiting enviromental laws, etc" We have tried. It aint working...especially not with the group in power at the moment. Domestic NON-defense spending up 37% since 2001. Bush begged for a new multi trillion dollar drug entitlement and got it. Tarrifs...farm subsidies...Kennedy's education bill...enthusiastically approved by the GOP. Sorry..I think our only hope now is to cause the so-called "conservatives" in congress a little pain. It is the only way to bring them back to the right...back to truely Constitutional government. Need an example of how a 3rd party can effect major politics? Look at what Ralph Nader did to the democrats. They are pissed over his taking 50,000 Floriduh votes in 2000...They think HE caused Gore to lose...What have they done to compensate? They have gone EXTREME LEFT. Today's Greens feel right at home in the Dean/Kucinich/Hellary democratic party. They have gone back to their BASE for this election. In the same way, I'm hoping we as Libertarians can pull the Republican party back to their base...back to the side of limited government.

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"--Thomas Jefferson

You see the problem is twofold, first of all as a group libertarians are rather small. Within the Republican fold the religious right, real moderates, traditionalists, members of the military, and even the RINOs are far more common.

Further, libertarians as a group have shown time and again they will betray the party, and especially conservatives, for whatever temporary gains they can make, especially in regards to drug policy.

The recent sodomy decision was a benchmark, something I've yet to see any libertarian proponents here answer. The LP signed on to the notion judges can write legislation by fiat in return for the hope that they will rewrite drug laws in the same manner.

One can see a sterling example here of how a libertarian leaning conservative - Thomas - is busy propounding libertarian thought in the face of Libertarian party opposition.

Bush right now is playing to the Reagan democrats and moderates (to much so in my opinion) and these people are nominally anti-libertarians. They don't mind farm subsidies, tariffs, or government spending in general. They do oppose abortion on demand, gay marriage, and a weak kneed response to the terror threat.

If libertarians were more numerous - which they could be if they weren't such fundamentalists - he wouldn't have to.

The two parties in America should be one certain around conservatism and one centered around libertarianism when you look America's philosophical and political history and development.

So again, I would suggest to people who consider themselves first and foremost libertarians, find the issues the American public agrees with you on and advance them. Striking out on your own and saying your immediate goal is to close down the IRS and legalize crack isn't going to get you any political power - *whether such a position is correct or not*.