"Remembering the Alamo" - Did the History Channel do justice?

The History Channel ^ | December 16, 2003 | Greystone Communications, Inc - Craig Haffner

[Johnny_Cipher]

... the real story is that they bought time with their lives to enable Sam Houston to prepare for the battle of San Jacinto - where the Mexican Army was routed and removed from Texas forever.

Its obvious you don't get to South Texas much these days ;)

[freedumb2003]

The Shootist

Ahh - it all comes back to me now -- sadly priescent film.

But I thought that bunch of kids killed Bruce Dern in revenge.

The donation has already been made!

[Kirkwood]

Yeah women are like that. Hard to know what they really think.

[Leatherneck_MT]

As an adopted Texican I watched the program with great trepidation myself. I must say I was..... surprised. Pleasantly so, that they did such a fine job with it. I've read alot and done alot of research into what IS known about the Alamo and I think that what they did pretty much goes along with the actual history of the fight and the events leading up to it.

[Kirkwood]

If John Wayne were still alive (and middle aged) he would have been good in playing the role of GW Bush.

[Leatherneck_MT]

" The program had Jim too ill to fight and most probably executed as he lay on his sick bed. I think it is pretty well founded Bowie was ill and him thus dying in his bed does not make me honor him any less."

Quite true. Matter of fact my sense of his honor was increased that much more knowing that he stayed AT the Alamo when he could have left, knowing that he most likely would die not able to defend himself.

Soddamn Insane could have learned a thing or 2 from Mr Bowie.. But then Jim had more honor in the hilt of his Knife than Soddamn has in his entire body.

[sonofatpatcher2]

Re: But I thought that bunch of kids killed Bruce Dern in revenge.

You are mixing you films. The kids did in Dern in The Cowboys, Oppie did the bartender in The Shootist, John's Davy got it in The Alamo and the Japs got the Duke in The Fighting Seabees and in The Sands of Iow Jima.

Think those are the only films John's character died in, but I may be corrected...

[Argh]

You're thinking of Bat Masterson.

:^)

[sonofatpatcher2]

Re: ...perhaps this is a Texas thing...

BTW It is a
very Big Texas Thing!

[kimosabe31]

P.S. -- I can't stand that commercial. I always hit the Mute button when it comes on.

Me too. The guy looks like a real jerk. I keep thinking it would take a hell of a big diamond for anyone (except his mother) to love him. Needless to say, after being forced to watch this commercial in order to see the Alamo, I'll never purchase anything from Zale's.

[FredTownWard]

You must be more tolerant of Alamo Revisionism than I am, sonofatpatcher2, because I was disappointed in this "history". Granted it was better than my worst fears, but if Disney's new movie is based on this "research", it is no wonder that they have delayed it during wartime.

Besides an annoying level of playground-level remarks from people with PhD's, this show displayed many of the worst aspects of Alamo Revisionism: Political Correctness, Multiculturalism, Moral Equivalence, the tearing down of heroism, overemphasis on slavery, and a one-sided view of racism, as if only Anglos ever committed it. I was particularly disturbed by the continuous effort to rehabilitate or at least make excuses for the blindingly obvious villain of the piece: Santa Anna. They tried to excuse his lifelong "no quarter" policy by blaming the Spanish commander of this "impressionable young officer" who followed a similar policy upon the crushing of the Green Flag Republic. They referred to him allowing his troops "a couple of days of raping and looting" after suppressing the Zacatecas rebellion as if to diminish it. They credited him with a "textbook" siege for his stupidity in planning a four-sided attack of the Alamo, when what he should have done was pin down most defenders with diversionary attacks while he concentrated on one corner or side.

I was annoyed by a number of small "mistakes" that gradually added up. Downplaying the significance of the imprisonment of Stephen Austin which was the end of the Texan Peace Party. Excusing berserker behavior by Mexican soldiers at the Alamo because of supposed outrage at Texan violation of white flag procedures, this after two weeks of flying the Red Flag, playing Deguello, and being ordered not to take prisoners! Dismissing Texan claims of fighting for freedom by bringing up slavery while ignoring that Santa Anna's policies amounted to the establishment of a colorblind slavery. Giving too much credence to third-hand (though contemporary) claims of the surrender of Davie Crockett in an era before photography was invented and about a man whose appearance even we're not sure of today!

It goes without saying that there was too much whining about alleged racism in the rise of undocumented myths surrounding an event for which (a) thanks to the policy (reluctantly?) carried out by the Mexican Army we are a little short of witnesses for and (b) generation after generation of Mexican "sore losers" who refused to allow American historians access to Mexican records until relatively recently! The Alamo Revisionists who finally got access to those Mexican records have done both the greatest service and the greatest disservice to the history of the Alamo. Though not as bad as I'd feared, I was glad I didn't waste a video tape on this drek, and I don't think I will be watching the Disney disaster when it comes out. Billy Bob Thornton as Davie Crockett? (shudder)

[kimosabe31]

My late Father knew Commando Kelly who won the Medal of Honor in Italy in WW2. Dad said the guy was a pure thug, but added, "That sonmabitch could fight!"

Your father must have been from Pittsburgh,Kelly's hometown. He(Kelly)had about 45-50 kraut scalps to his credit...pretty gutsy I'd say.

[laishly]

I saw the Alamo film at the IMax theater practically next door to the Alamo in San Antonio. My wife and I were very moved. It was also very informative. How did the History Channel thing compare?

[xm177e2]

I didn't watch it, but I was under the impression they were going to repeat the Mexican lie that Davey Crockett surrenderred and was taken prisoner and then executed (instead of fighting to the death). Some Mexican "historian" didn't like the fact that Americans kicked so much ass at the Alamo that he decided to take a politically-correct dump on one of our heroes. It was a political distortion of history, and when some people hear it they want to believe it because they hate Crockett for being an unabashed American Patriot and killer.

Look at the historical evidence: Crockett and the others went to the Alamo, and fought there for many days, even though they knew the battle was probably going to be lost. They fought valiantly for days on end--and then we are supposed to believe they just surrenderred at the end??? I have no reason to believe that this is anything other than a damn dirty lie to make an American hero look bad and piss on part of our history.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***I wished they had added that Santa Anna died in New York City :-)***

And he brought us the curse of CHEWING GUM! Every time I step in a wad I say "Curse you, Santa Anna!

[Missouri]

Davy Crocket was portrayed as having gone to Texas to lick his wounds after political defeat.

I caught that, too.

The night before on the History Channel, they had an hour long show about Crockett and discussed this defeat. Apparently, Crockett pissed off the party of Andrew Jackson by condemning the forced removal of Indians sending them west of the Mississsippi River (Trail of Tears). Jackson got even by dumping money and operatives into Crocketts district working to get rid of him. Crockett lost by about 450 vote.

Crocketts took a couragous stand but this was not mentioned in last nights show.

[Oztrich Boy]

Think those are the only films John's character died in, but I may be corrected...

Technically, he dies in off screen in Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and True Grit (unless I'm confusing the latter film with the original book.)

[kimosabe31]

Santa Ana is hated by the Mexican people. They belive he sold out to the gringos for 30 silver pieces. They look at him kind of like how the Arab street sees Saddam since his capture -- as a coward who gave in rather than fight the noble fight.

Santa Ana basically committed the cowardly act of swapping Texas independence in exchange for his own life at San Jacinto where he was captured. He gave away a hugh piece of mexican territory to save his own neck. The Texans (gringos and mexicans alike) would've strung him up on the spot if Sam Houston had not intervened to keep him alive in order to sign up for Texas independence. Texans and mexicans alike hated his guts. He was the saddam hussein of mexico butchering his own people. Shortly before the Alamo, he led his army in an attack on Zecatas (sp??) where he slaughtered all the men and raped all the women because they refused to go along with his "assumption" of dictatorial powers.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Anyway, was the History Channel fair and balanced?

I think it was. I did research in High School on that battle.
Things to note.
The Walt Disney movie(1955) with Fess Parker had some defenders of Mexican descent in the Alamo. One shows Bowie a statue of the Madonna and says she will protect him. This has since been cut from the movie.
The scene where Davy first meets, and bests, Thimble-rig has also been cut out.
They did show the last battle beginning before dawn which is correct.
The others movies are mostly a conglomeration of myth and wishful thinking.
Bowie is claimed to have a communicable disease, however several of the books on the Alamo has him injured when a cannon crushed him.

The Biography of Santa Anna states that only 75 soldiers were killed at the Alamo, but he claims to have killed 600 of the defenders.
Bowie's slave (Sam, or Ben, or Jim)did survive the battle. Also another defender of Spanish descent managed to convince the Mexicans that he was only a POW of the defenders.
The Autobiography of David Crockett ends just before the battle, then an editor added that Crocket was captured and when found they were to be executed he "lept" like a panther upon the enemy before being bayonetted to death.

I thought the program was very good.
Another interesting thing not mentioned, South of Texas in Mexico another revolution was attempted but ended in miserable failure.

[Missouri]

I didn't watch it, but I was under the impression they were going to repeat the Mexican lie that Davey Crockett surrenderred and was taken prisoner and then executed (instead of fighting to the death).

As you predicted, it was repeated. All in all it could have been worse but I don't like this attempt to marginalize Davy Crockett.