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To: joesbucks
This site seems to be populated by mostly conservative who believe in inner self
strength, accountability, self reliance and other character traits that
demonstrate individualism. There generally is a leaning toward Judeo-Christian values.

These values generally teach that the solution is found in faith and faith alone.
Faith will sustain and solve the problems. Self inflicting death is wrong.
(Please understand, this is my understanding. I tried to put this in a delicate
wording as possible, yet it still appears to be harsh and judgemental.)


Not to worry, you posed the situation well and kindly.

Let me at least explain the vantage point from which I see the same situation.

A reading of the Old and New Testaments reveals a lot of real, flawed, defective
people that were part of the story of the Jewish and Christian faiths/ethos.
IIRC, Jesus said that it was the sick (in spirit) that needed a physician, not the "well" people.

And, I think a fuller reading of some of the letters following Acts show that
while faith was viewed as a crucial part of wellness...severe illness
required action, e.g., letting the leaders of the church know you were sick,
to have them pray over you and anoint the ill with oil (about as good a medicinal
fix as there was at the time, I suppose). Even Paul prescribes MODERATE consumption of
wine (alcohol and all those good phytochemicals) for an upset stomach.

Speaking for myself alone, I think the real situation is this...people sick (in spirit
and/or body) often are sustained by their religious faith. That is crucial.
BUT, they should seek reasonable medical treatment of their illness, whether it's
psychological or bodily.
I fear that there are some people who suffer from depression and may not seek
treatment because they "put all their eggs in one basket" and expect that
faith, without action, will cure them...and some sink so low they lose their grip and
release themselves via suicide.
They should have faith AND take action by seeking appropriate medical help.
And their family and friends should try to help those who "can't help themselves", if possible.

I guess I would pose a counter-thought question:
"How many suicides are prevented because of faith?"
We can't know the answer to the question, but I suspect the number is substantial.

I admit that my thinking of this has been influenced somewhat by that tough,
pragmatic old Marine...the preacher/pastor Chuck Swindoll (www.insight.org).
36 posted on 12/13/2003 6:52:04 AM PST by VOA
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To: VOA
Some of you might recall, as I do, a sermon that was making the rounds for awhile--I think it comes back every few years. The latest version had a fellow caught in a horrible flood. The water continued to rise, but he rejected all efforts to evacuate him, saying, "I've put my trust in the Lord, so I'll be fine." Well, eventually he was sitting on the roof, still praying, and finally a helicopter came to rescue him, and again, he rejected the help. Eventually, the floodwaters washed him away.

When he appeared at Heaven's gates, he complained of his extreme disappointment. He said, "I prayed and prayed, and the Lord deserted me!" Then he heard a Heavenly Voice booming out: "I sent you three boats and a helicopter, what more did you want?"

That is what I meant by "pray and do"--sometimes God sends you the means to remedy a situation, but sometimes it requires we (at the very least) reach out and grab the lifeline.
43 posted on 12/13/2003 7:01:09 AM PST by MizSterious (First, the journalists, THEN the lawyers.)
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