[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

My brother drowned himself in a freezing Wisconsin river some years ago.

Speaking only for myself: One thing I never - not for a second - felt toward him was anger, and (unlike some here) I don't believe he's burning in hell.

But that's because I knew him, was aware of his pain, and I knew the state of his spiritual life. I know why he did it. I wish with all my heart and soul that he hadn't, but I know why he did. His absence in our lives is the only thing that hurt our family - if others didn't understand it, or got angry with him, or whatever, it's because they did not know what he was going through.

I very much hope you will reconsider your decision to leave over this kind of stuff. I probably wouldn't have posted on this thread, but I saw your post and while I agree with some of what you said, I felt the need as the sister of a suicidal person to throw in here.

[bonfire]

He's just been banned or suspended. sheesh.

[cyborg]

I think suicide is selfish, but this person was crass and insensitive and disturbing. He/she needed to be put in the doghouse for a while.

[Dane]

DOAIJV, and this is just my opinion, Arne's beef was that people on FR were putting TILH's sucide as a noble and heroic act. He was crass in stating it, but the basic point remains.

I have uch sympathy for TILH's plight, but not respect for his ultimate act.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

Suicidal thoughts can occur when a person who is ill realizes that medication has not worked, or, at best provides little relief... and, realizes that their lives will never be the same as they once were, because the illness makes it literally impossible.

It is a point when one realizes that a paradigm shift has occured in life (in one's subjective reality), and life may be more difficult UNTIL DEATH. An attitude of "I will beat this, I will rise above, this is not a problem for a strong person" is particularly dangerous when those expectations are unreasonable.(depending on severity) But the cliche to 'get over it and move on' is simply a fallacy.

It's also a matter of comparisons. For someone who had a career, athletic talent, a wide social circle, etc...and now struggles just to accomplish basic functions in life, is DEVESTATING.