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To: joesbucks
I would suggest that it is normal for ALL people to feel doubt, and that your despair arises from that doubt. The human mind has a great capacity for playing "what if" games with itself.

But faith defeats doubt. And the consolation for doubters is in the Bible. Granted, it becomes a circular argument: if there is no God then the Bible is simply a collection of aphorisms, the dusty opinions of mortal men. But since your funk arises from a choice you make -- doubting -- then your salvation also arises from a choice -- faith.

2 posted on 12/13/2003 6:06:12 AM PST by IronJack
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To: IronJack
Thank you for your reply. Interesting insight.
3 posted on 12/13/2003 6:13:11 AM PST by joesbucks
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To: IronJack
would suggest that it is normal for ALL people to feel doubt
This statement indicates to me that you, thankfully, have never suffered true depression. True depression isn't about doubt. It's more to do with despair, combined with mental fatigue and more problems than a person can juggle at one time.
5 posted on 12/13/2003 6:14:46 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: IronJack
Does depression necessarily come from doubt, though. Many men who are depressed are actually certain: Certain things will not improve, certain no one loves them, etc.
8 posted on 12/13/2003 6:18:56 AM PST by Lazamataz ("With an Iron Fist, We Will Lead Humanity to Happiness." - Translation of sign at Solovki Gulag)
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To: IronJack
There is happiness and sadness. Somewhere between the two there is ennui. The diagnosed depressed I've known were squarely in ennui. If you can tip them to one side or the other with medication or professional treatment, they respond until the next bout.

The brain is a wonderful organ until it goes awry.

75 posted on 12/13/2003 7:24:05 AM PST by Glenn (What were you thinking, Al?)
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To: IronJack
But faith defeats doubt. And the consolation for doubters is in the Bible.

I have witnessed miraculous rescues from the abyss of darkest depression through prayer and active faith in God. I'm thinking of one woman, a friend of the family, who had constant suicidal ideation about three years ago. She would lie in bed for weeks on end, as miserable and dark as any human being I've ever seen. She went to a psychiatrist, who prescribed first one powerful antidepressant, and then another. But these treatments brought with them other effects that only worsened her lot. Finally, she thanked God for her life, got up, made her bed, and walked fully in faith that she would be healed. And she was. She says she still has her down moments, but they are temporary and easily bearable. For the most part she is cheerful and fully engaged in life.

I know other apparently equally faithful men and women who have tried and failed repeatedly by these means (prayer and faith). Some have seen improvement, sometimes dramatic, after being prescribed antidepressants. Others simply struggle and struggle, and struggle. I have no answer for these people. Do they have a thorn in the flesh that God in His wisdom has chosen at present not to remove? I don't know. But I pray for them.

There is a powerful mystery of the mind, in the mind, and of the spirit. Its mechanism bewilders me. I know a man who smoked for decades, who simply could not overcome the addiction no matter how much he prayed, no matter how many smoking cessation techniques he attempted. Then he became engaged to a woman who told him flatly she would not marry him if he continued to smoke. His love for this woman had taken over center stage in is life. He told me, "That did it. I stopped smoking immediately and have never looked back. I have never even had a craving. I can't explain it. When I became convinced at some deep level that smoking was no longer an option, it was not something I could even bargain over, at that very moment it was like some 'central controller' said 'Okay, I've unlocked your shackles, and you're free.'"

I believe with some people depression can lift and dissipate by the same mechanism. Each man's struggle is his own. My own struggle is sufficient for me. Thankfully, I have not had to contend with intense depression (or smoking addiction).

125 posted on 12/13/2003 8:04:41 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: IronJack
I would suggest that it is normal for ALL people to feel doubt, and that your despair arises from that doubt. The human mind has a great capacity for playing "what if" games with itself.
But faith defeats doubt. And the consolation for doubters is in the Bible.

Yes, many people find both strength and comfort from their religious beliefs.
But the doubt itself arises from the realization that the "real world" is not the way it is "supposed to be".
I don't know why some people are better able to cope with this disparity better than others.
Apparently there are biochemical/medical factors that at least have some influence over that.
But I think we should not ignore the cultural influences that brainwash us into measuring ourselves by unrealistic expectations. What we view on TV isn't real, and we shouldn't expect that our lives will follow the "exciting" and "entertaining" lifestyles that are portrayed.

199 posted on 12/13/2003 10:07:09 AM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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