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Hugh Hewitt's Gaffney-Norquist Debate (four reviews)
HughHewitt.com, Captain's Quarters, Powerline Blog, Little Green Footballs, | December 11th, 2003

Posted on 12/11/2003 4:39:44 PM PST by Sabertooth

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To: Nick Danger
*You think getting Saffuri ongoing face time and photo ops with the President and Cabinet members is part of some sting?

**No, it's more subtle than that. It's what the statisticians would call a "known bad." You watch the known bads to build a model of what unknown bads look like. In order to do that, you have to let your known ones run around and be bad a little bit.

So, now you're saying it's ok that Norquist was making common cause with known badguys, because it's all part of some strategery?

In any case, you're splitting hairs here:

Saffuri didn't get "ongoing face time and photo ops with the President and Cabinet members is part of some sting," that Saffuri got "ongoing face time and photo ops with the President and Cabinet members is part of some more subtle thing statasticians call a 'known bad.'"

Your Ashcroft incident is a perfect example of that. So he goes in there and he tries to influence them. You act as though removing him from the picture would improve things. No. You're better off with the devil you know. After he leaves you can say, "OK, so that's how the bad guys would want us to behave." The guy you need to worry about more is the guy you didn't know was bad. Don't assume he isn't around, because he is.

Your defense of Norquist has morphed from "booga booga" to "the devil we know."

This is all starting to sound like a real life episode of "Spy vs. Spy."

Were Sami Al Arian's campaign photo op with President Bush and subsequent White House visit in 2001 (which Norquist lied about on Hewitt's show) also part of the "devil you know" surveillance program?


41 posted on 12/12/2003 8:02:36 AM PST by Sabertooth (Credit where it's due: saveourlicense.com prevented SB60, and the Illegal Alien CDLs... for now.)
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To: agitator
ping!
42 posted on 12/12/2003 8:06:17 AM PST by diotima
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To: doug from upland; ALOHA RONNIE; DLfromthedesert; PatiPie; flamefront; onyx; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Irma; ...
Gaffney versus Norquist
On his show tonight Hugh Hewitt led with a full hour devoted to a joint interview of Frank Gaffney and Grover Norquist regarding Gaffney's Frontpage article (discussed below earlier today): "A troubling influence."

The thesis of Gaffney's article is that Norquist has worked on behalf of, and together with, an American fifth column of Islamists and Islamist organizations. According to Gaffney, Norquist has successfully sought to turn his political connections to the advantage of these Islamist individuals and organizations...

Hugh Hewitt ping!
43 posted on 12/12/2003 10:10:58 AM PST by RonDog
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To: Sabertooth
So, now you're saying

Please don't tell me what I'm saying, and for sure do not tell other people what I am saying. A discussion does not consist of me saying A and you replying, "Ah! So you're saying B!"

I did not say that it is OK for anyone to make common cause with bad guys. I said that knowing who some of them are is an aid to finding more of them. That is not a "split hair," it is an elementary fact.

Be careful here. I am not "defending Norquist" from things he actually did, if in fact they were wrong. I am not on some mission here to claim that he is pure in all of this. I don't claim to know. What I do know is that this document which has been presented to us as containing "documented facts" contains a whole bunch of documented facts that don't tell us anything, but are being presented as if they are some sort of damning indictment.

Playing creepy organ music while telling us that some guy met in a car with Karl Rove and they talked about -- dun da DUN dun -- how to get more votes, is a trick. It is a hackneyed rhetorical trick, and when I see it, my BS detector goes on.

So I read on a little more, and I see that Osama bin Laden and al Qa'eda have been plopped into a story with Norquist, and this time it's because there's some guy at the White House that Norquist knows (no claim is made that Norquist had anything to do with him working there) whose late father was involved in all of this. Wait a minute. That's an even dirtier trick. Now the author is taking third-party mud, once dead, and throwing it at Norquist. Why Norquist? If that story is true, the White House has some more vetting to do. But instead of aiming the venom at the White House, Gaffney spews it at Norquist.

I have to conclude, after seeing a bunch of that kind of stuff, that this is a hit piece. OK, so Gaffney is on some kind of jihad. If it was against terrorists, I might be glad. But it isn't. It's against Norquist. It is a vituperative personal attack, plainly motivated by animosity, and powered by every rhetorical trick that Gaffney can summon.

Don't try to sell me this as one Saint's effort to save the Republic. It isn't that, so just stop it. National security professionals do not go on the radio and in the magazines to hurl sticks, rocks, grass, and anything else they can grab, at one specific individual as part of our ongoing anti-terrorism efforts.

If it came as a surprise to Gaffney that creepy people would be attracted by an opportunity for political access, he shouldn't have been. I doubt others were that naive, because that motion is as old as the hills. The question is whether it is dangerous. Gaffney claims it is. I don't think it's half as dangerous as not knowing who they are. I'm sure every diplomat in the Chinese embassy is a spy. Do we deport them all? No. We watch them. Spies we know about are useful, even though they're spies, because they help us find out who the other spies are that we don't know.

The problem we had after 9/11 was that we were embarrassingly ignorant about these networks. Books will be written about how that happened. For sure, Mistakes Were Made. But we can't blame Grover Norquist for that; he's a domestic politics guy with no brief in that area whatsoever.

Who did make those mistakes? And why, if our Mystery Correspondent is to be believed, are they now trying to stick Norquist with their bill?

Wahabbis! Wahabbis right here in River City! And it's all this guy's fault, say the guys whose job it was to watch for that stuff and who were caught flat-footed on 9/11.

I say it's a hit piece, and it is not motivated by any desire to improve the security of the United States. If anything, it's probably mildly harmful to the security of the United States because if there were more of those creeps out there who might have exposed themselves to us, they will now be inclined to continue to hide. The good news is, we probably have better ways of finding them now, so it may not matter.

44 posted on 12/12/2003 11:18:38 AM PST by Nick Danger (Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer)
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To: Sabertooth
Next he should have the Gaffney/Ridge debate!!
45 posted on 12/12/2003 11:49:32 AM PST by DLfromthedesert
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To: LurkerNoMore!
I'm no longer in Norquist's corner on this.

Told ya long ago.

46 posted on 12/12/2003 7:15:10 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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