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To: philman_36
I'm still waiting on an answer to my 335...

It's just too exciting around here to keep up with all of it. My question as to whether the White House knew what Saffuri is, has to do with my unwillingness to accept the proposition that an L Street lobbyist is the guy we are to hold solely responsible for the fact that agents of a hostile foreign power got into the White House.

For all I know, this bureaucratic dodge we're getting about why all these people we pay to hunt down the spies were sitting on their hands is true; but if it is, that still doesn't make intelligence failures Grover Norquist's fault. Now we have a systemic problem instead of an incompetent-bureaucrat problem. I frankly don't care which it is. I am tired of hearing bureaucratic excuses for why this crap happens.

This guy wants to herd us all into a pen where we believe it's Grover Norquist's fault -- and his alone -- that foreign agents got close to Bush. You believe it if you want. I don't. I think we pay a ton of money to protect the national security, and when it gets breached the national security guys say it's not their department; and if the lobbyist was a serious professional he would have caught it. To paraphrase our Mystery Correspondent, are you buying that crap?

Our Mystery Correspondent has told us for a fact that "the White House" knew, where "the White House" in this case means whichever 'national security professional' Frank Gaffney whispered into the ear of. Supposedly, that guy can't do anything because it's Rove's deal and they don't do Rove; or perhaps because Rove will chew their heads off if they try. So now our national security professionals are telling us that Karl Rove is a traitor? What was the point of that story, because it absolutely left that little stench hanging in the air. In which case we come around again to, "Why Grover Norquist?" If Karl Rove is on the take or something, let's hear about that instead of dropping it in the form of innuendos. Hell, if it's Bush himself, I'd just as soon know.

Don't misunderstand my motivations here. I do not care where these chips fall. If they all end up falling on Grover Norquist, fine. But right now, what I see is that the guys we pay to keep Bush out of this kind of trouble are telling us it's not their fault, it's not their department, it's not in the procedures, and all the other crap we always hear from bureaucrats when something bad happens on their watch. Instead it's all supposed to be Grover Norquist's fault, and we can believe that because these particular bureaucrats never lie, and they're always right. You'll just have to pardon me for not being herded along properly in that direction.

410 posted on 12/14/2003 10:34:11 AM PST by Nick Danger (Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer)
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To: Nick Danger
You'll just have to pardon me for not being herded along properly in that direction.
I surely didn't and don't expect you to "go along with the herd". You know I don't go with the herd.
I've done what I've always done and chased the rabbits down the hole. I've chased these rabbits for several years and it's too bad that Norquist is caught up with them.
You keep talking about just the White House meetings and, as noted earlier, fail to consider the earlier campaign trail too. This has all been going on for some time. These people were probably considered, like before with x42, "just contributors", with the impetus being upon someone else to bring the trust along. Let's not besmirch a good thing with easily provable misdeeds by "an L Street lobbyist" as you call him. Things are "too exciting" and I'd hate to see a stink like what happened with x42 happen with GWB. Too easily susceptible to the Dems that way and plenty of stones can be thrown. I'd hate to be considered a hypocrite so I call 'em as I see 'em. Norquist recommended and has questionable ties with these people and should have to answer to it.
Well, minimal damage is what I'd recommend. Cut the losses! Damned embarrassing is how I see it and how I'd work it out. Somebody trusted burned 'em, be it Rove or whomever.
It's actually good that it's all coming out now. Perhaps the link will someday read...
"After the Islamic Fifth Column penetration allegations were publicized, the White House determined that Alamoudi, Sami al-Arian and others had not been vetted by the NSC (there had been only a ``summary background check'' by Grover Norquist)."
412 posted on 12/14/2003 11:03:57 AM PST by philman_36
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