Vince Foster: What the Media Won’t Tell You

NewsMax.com ^ | 12/04/03

[thesummerwind]

Do we get to guess whether any investigation was done to match the "Keys"

Never! If they did make that stupid mistake, I'm sure they were able to maneuver back there some time thereafter, and "get things straightened out", if you know what I mean. But it may point out what we already knew, Craig Livingstone (or William Kennedy) was no rocket scientist!

[Tymesup]

Yeah, it's been awhile now.

Suppose he killed himself with chemicals. Why the panic? Why move him? Why create the suspicion of a crime, when none existed?

Suppose he shot himself in his office. Wouldn't someone have heard? Wouldn't there have been blood on the carpet? Did he announce he was going to lunch and then go back into his office? Again, why create the suspicion of a crime, when none existed?

Here's my theory for today. Foster gets in the car. Somebody rises from the back seat and tells him we're going to take a little ride. The video shows the two of them leaving the garage, so it has to be destroyed, along with the technician.

They go someplace quiet, a conversation or transaction takes place, the gun is pointed, Foster tries to resist but is unsuccessful. The other party rolls Foster into a carpet, puts him in his van, dumps him in Fort Marcy and starts to lay him out but is interrupted by park visitors.

The other party gets on the phone and tells Livingstone, get Foster's car over to Fort Marcy quick, put the keys in his pockets and the mitt in the glove compartment. And a suicide note would be a nice touch.

Perhaps the other party didn't need to call Livingstone. Where is he these days, anyway? Maybe you can't play for the Clintons if you can't turn the routine Arkancide.

[sweetliberty]

I think you might be needing this. I'd go for the extra heavy duty stuff if I were you. Not that I think anything is too far out there for the Clintons.

.

[sweetliberty]

"put the keys in his pockets and the mitt in the glove compartment."

How could that be if the keys didn't turn up in his pocket until after Livingstone's visit to the morgue?

"Maybe you can't play for the Clintons if you can't turn the routine Arkancide"

Well THAT would certainly exxplain how they could keep so many people on such a short leash now wouldn't it?

[Tymesup]

"How could that be if the keys didn't turn up in his pocket until after Livingstone's visit to the morgue? "

Didn't two sets of keys end up in Foster's pants? Maybe somebody drove the car to Fort Marcy and put this set in the pants; somebody else went to the house, picked up another set of keys and the mitt, perhaps introduced themselves to Lisa and went down to the morgue.

[sweetliberty]

"Didn't two sets of keys end up in Foster's pants?

See post #6."

[IncPen]

Clinton. Foster. It's like a scab you pick at and can't leave alone.

Suppose he killed himself with chemicals. Why the panic? Why move him? Why create the suspicion of a crime, when none existed?

There was the 'scandal' about background checks at some point in the first term, and the fact that many WH employees had never had drug tests. The presumption at the time was that this omission was concious and necessary, as many on the staff would not have passed (with a nudge and a wink, in the media, if you recall).

My theory of the day has Vince offing himself on some kind of narcocktail and being discovered... and well, you get the rest.

Onion other hand... your theory works well too.

I'm waiting for the book, which I don't expect to read on this mortal coil...

Btw, I believe it was mentioned up the thread that Livingstone is a DC area limo driver...

[thesummerwind]

"How could that be if the keys didn't turn up in his pocket until after Livingstone's visit to the morgue? " Didn't two sets of keys end up in Foster's pants? Maybe somebody drove the car to Fort Marcy and put this set in the pants; somebody else went to the house, picked up another set of keys and the mitt, perhaps introduced themselves to Lisa and went down to the morgue.

Whoa guys. Here's the scoop.

From Ambrose Evans Ptitchard's, 'The Secret Life of Bill Clinton'; John Rolla, U.S. Park Police, "I searched his pants pockets. I couldn't find a wallet or nothing in his pants pockets. We searched the car, and were puzzled why we found no keys."

It would be hard to miss them. Foster had a collection of at least six keys on two separate rings. One ring was for the Honda with a tag marked "Vince's Keys." The other had a tag from Cook Jeep Sales, Little Rock, with four cabinet and door keys, including a Medeco-cut high security key with the inscription "U.S. Property Do Not Duplicate."

The likelihood that Detective Rolla could search the trouser pockets of Foster's suit without finding this clump of metal is close to zero.

But two hours later (after Livingstone and Kennedy's "visit"), the keys mysteriously appeared. When Detective Rolla and Cheryl Braun reached the morgue at the Fairfax County Hospital, the keys were sitting in the front right pocket of Foster's trousers.

And a little more from the book for you; "Many times when you view a body, you are in a sparate room and view it through the glass," explained Detective Rolla. "This time, I don't think that happened. They (Livingstone and Kennedy) were let in, the room attendant unzipped the bag, they looked at it, he zipped it back up."

So to sum up. The keys were not in Foster's pants until after Livingsone and Kennedy "visited" Foster at the morgue. Very simple. So, why did Livingstone and Kennedy leave in only ONE of their cars, when they had come to the morgue in their TWO cars. Why?

[thesummerwind]

I'm waiting for the book

Did you read Chris Ruddy's book, and have you read the section on Foster in "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton" by Ambrose Evans Pritchard? Excellent.

[thesummerwind]

From Ambrose Evans Pritchard's, 'The Secret Life of Bill Clinton'; John Rolla, U.S. Park Police, "I searched his pants pockets. I couldn't find a wallet or nothing in his pants pockets. We searched the car, and were puzzled why we found no keys."

It would be hard to miss them. Foster had a collection of at least six keys on two separate rings. One ring was for the Honda with a tag marked "Vince's Keys." The other had a tag from Cook Jeep Sales, Little Rock, with four cabinet and door keys, including a Medeco-cut high security key with the inscription "U.S. Property Do Not Duplicate."

The likelihood that Detective Rolla could search the trouser pockets of Foster's suit without finding this clump of metal is close to zero.

But two hours later (after Livingstone and Kennedy's "visit"), the keys mysteriously appeared. When Detective Rolla and Cheryl Braun reached the morgue at the Fairfax County Hospital, the keys were sitting in the front right pocket of Foster's trousers.

And a little more from the book for you; "Many times when you view a body, you are in a sparate room and view it through the glass," explained Detective Rolla. "This time, I don't think that happened. They (Livingstone and Kennedy) were let in, the room attendant unzipped the bag, they looked at it, he zipped it back up."

So to sum up. The keys were not in Foster's pants until after Livingsone and Kennedy "visited" Foster at the morgue. Very simple. So, why did Livingstone and Kennedy leave in only ONE of their cars, when they had come to the morgue in their TWO cars. Why?

[Tymesup]

"So, why did Livingstone and Kennedy leave in only ONE of their cars, when they had come to the morgue in their TWO cars. Why?"

If they both drove generic cars, leaving one makes no sense. If one drove Foster's car to the morgue, they couldn't have then drove it to the park with the keys in Foster's pocket. Plus, they visited the morgue at least two hours later, probably much later.

Could Foster have been rolled up in a carpet, put into his car, driven to the park and been laid out there? If the killer had then put the keys back in Foster's pocket, there's no loose end here. Therefore, in this scenario, the killer carelessly put the keys in his pocket and later had Livingstone and Kennedy go to the morgue.

How would both L and K decide they needed to go to the morgue? Wouldn't the killer just give them the keys he already had? Where did Foster keep the other set of keys, by the way?

Since there is doubt that the car was there when Foster was found, I'm hesitant to buy this scenario.

Another scenario is the killer drove Foster's body to the park in another vehicle. Perhaps he knew his accomplice would bring Foster's car. The killer grabbed the keys Foster had with him, the accomplice, who had access to Foster's office or house, grabbed the other set of keys.

Were L and K at the morgue at the same time. It's hard to believe they each slipped a set of keys into the jacket. It would be a risk that the attendant would see something. Maybe they didn't know they were identical sets. It's hard to believe Foster would carry two sets of keys.

[thesummerwind]

If they both drove generic cars, leaving one makes no sense. If one drove Foster's car to the morgue, they couldn't have then drove it to the park with the keys in Foster's pocket. Plus, they visited the morgue at least two hours later, probably much later.

What are you talking about? This is the second time you said whatever that is you are trying to say.

Foster's gray Honda was in police custody when Livingstone and Kennedy went to the morgue later that enening/night, in their own two cars, that is factual. NOBODY drove FOSTER'S car to the morgue. Where are you getting that bizarre idea?

"If one drove Foster's car to the morgue, they couldn't have then drove it to the park with the keys in Foster's pocket." ---that sentence makes absolutely no sense. So I can't even respond to it.

Either you don't have a clear understanding of the case, or you are just tired (late at night, you know).

Anyhow, I can suggest the Ruddy book or the Pritchard book. I'm sure that there are other good sources too. But for now, what you are saying, is totally undecipherable by me.

[thesummerwind]

If the killer had then put the keys back in Foster's pocket, there's no loose end here.----the keys WERE NOT in Foster's pockets when he arrived at the morgue!

How would both L and K decide they needed to go to the morgue?

I don't know. Maybe they flipped a coin and they both lost! ;)

Wouldn't the killer just give them the keys he already had?----this is an unproven (and wrong) supposition.

Where did Foster keep the other set of keys, by the way?----where do you think? In his pocket, like the rest of us probably.

Another scenario is the killer drove Foster's body to the park in another vehicle.--- a possibility. One thing is for sure, Foster got to the park TWO HOURS before his Honda did, quite a fine trick!

Perhaps he knew his accomplice would bring Foster's car. The killer grabbed the keys Foster had with him, the accomplice, who had access to Foster's office or house, grabbed the other set of keys.---- another unsupported assumption.

Were L and K at the morgue at the same time.----YES

It's hard to believe they each slipped a set of keys into the jacket. It would be a risk that the attendant would see something. Maybe they didn't know they were identical sets. It's hard to believe Foster would carry two sets of keys.----they didn't! You base all your thoughts on things that most likely did not happen or are already proven wrong by factual testimony. I really suggest you read pages 167-170 of Pritchard's book (The Secret Life of Bill Clinton). It is very easy to understand if you read those four short pages. Bye for now.

[Tymesup]

Your 168:

"So, why did Livingstone and Kennedy leave in only ONE of their cars, when they had come to the morgue in their TWO cars. Why?"

I didn't know this. Agreed they didn't drive Foster's car to the morgue. I don't see how it's significant otherwise.

Agreed it was late at night to be posting.

[Tymesup]

"How would both L and K decide they needed to go to the morgue?

I don't know. Maybe they flipped a coin and they both lost! ;)"

Three possibilities occur to me. One, the killer realizes he messed up, calls L, leaves a message, calls K. Both eventually respond. Two, the killer realizes he messed up, thinks he can't take care of it, calls K or L. He then decides he can take care of it, both respond. Three, the killer realizes he messed up, calls up his accomplice, says we need to take care of this, you will distract the attendant while I slip two sets of keys into the pockets. They meet in the parking lot.

"Where did Foster keep the other set of keys, by the way?----where do you think? In his pocket, like the rest of us probably."

Unless Foster was unusual, he didn't carry two sets of six keys. If he didn't, we still don't have an explanation why there were two sets in his pocket.

Freegards

[AGreatPer]

"Livingstone is a DC area limo driver"

Caught this on an old post. I never heard that one.

If he is a D.C. limo driver, can't he be brought in to testify?

I already know the answer, to testify at what. Case closed I guess.

Wow, they litterly got away with murder.

[RoseD]

Does anyone recall in intial newsreports that Vince Foster head was downhill from his feet when found??

[AGreatPer]

I don't remember. But the guy I just pinged might know.

Ping to Virginia Tech.

[AppyPappy]

I think he was uphill from his feet.

[murdoog]

Bumping for the 13th anniversary of Vincent Foster's death