New Guardian Urged for Terri Schiavo, More Evaluation of Her Condition Needed

WFTV poll, as of right now:

Yes 2150 46%
No 2438 52%
Not sure 97 2%

An independent guardian appointed for Terri Schiavo told Governor Jeb Bush Tuesday that she deserves a permanent guardian other than her estranged husband Michael. He also claimed Terri is in a permanent vegetative state, but added that she should be re-evaluated by experts.

Thank God the man was honest.

I was under the impression that George W. Greer will not change the guardianship if Terri's Law is struck down by his Republican "pal" Douglas Baird. Now, it is certain that Baird will strike down the law. So aren't we back at square one, really?

Found one at terrisfight.org. Hopefully this link will work. It's in pdf format.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/florida/orl-schiavoreport120203,0,1614523.acrobat?coll=sfla-news-florida

If that one doesn't work, try this one.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2003-12/10455191.pdf

Holding my place.

This "judge" Baird is a clone of George W. Greer. He will do anything to keep the truth from coming out.

Boy, will that upset the "all Terri, all the time" crowd here at FR.

Somehow crassness becomes you.

It just seems reasonable to me.

That is why this case is so horrible. It is so unreasonable from start to finish. There must be great corruption among virtually the entire FL judiciary! George F. Felos says that "EVERY judge" in FL who has heard any part of this case favors letting Terri be dehydrated and starved. God, please help Terri and the State of FL as well!!!

the appellate court.

Sorry, no the appeals court has ruled against Terri over and over by refusing to hear the Schindlers' appeals. All the FL courts from George W. Greer up to and including thje Chiles' dominated "Supreme" Court are kangaroo courts. Is there no justice in Sunny FL?

How are people going to repair the wrong they have done to Terri by refusing to accept the facts and refusing to let her pass

You mean "let her pass her swallowing tests," don't you? That's what I was wondering. How on earth can Michael, Greer, Felos, et al, make it up to her?

Wolfson was appointed pursuant to Terri's Law, and as long as that is in place, the Law states that Terri will have a Guardian Ad Litem. If MS is removed through the Schindler's petition, I am guessing that the Guardian Ad Litem will continue to represent her interests. In other words, there would be no reason for Greer to appoint an guardian if one is already serving through Terri's Law. The Schindler's can petition to replace MS with Bobby Schindler if MS is removed, but in that case I think Wolfson or another third party would continue to serve pursuant to Terri's Law. The appointment of the GAL addresses the need for a third party when there is disagreement among family members...there is no reason that Bobby Schindler could not be Terri's legal guardian, while Wolfson is the GAL, as MS is currently the legal guardian while Wolfson is serving as GAL.

Why doesn't MS just give up and let her family take care of her? I can understand the Schindler's determination to litigate Terri's right to live, yet I cannot fathom what it takes to pour an equal amount of energy, time and money in seeing her killed, as HINO has done. If she has no consciousness, as MS says, then why should he be concerned if her parents think she does?? If she is truly not "there" why is he focused on carrying out her alleged wishes? According to him, she is unaware of her existence, so how could she be suffering? He wants the Schindlers to suffer, out of spite, plain and simple.

"How are people going to repair the wrong they have done to Terri by refusing to accept the facts and refusing to let her pass"

Here is what you do not get. It does not matter if she can become normal again, and it does not matter if she is legally terminal. What does matter is not that those of us on this board are refusing to let her pass. It is that she is refusing to pass, and we are backing her.

I guess you live by the theory: She is disabled. Make her die.

Changes Proposed In Right-To-Die Laws

Dec 3, 2003
By JEROME R. STOCKFISCH

TALLAHASSEE - Weeks after Gov. Jeb Bush and the Legislature intervened in the Terri Schiavo case, a lawmaker is proposing to rewrite Florida's right-to-die statutes to make it harder to remove feeding tubes from all comatose patients.

Senate Bill 692, introduced by Republican state Sen. Stephen Wise of Jacksonville, would prohibit courts from ordering feeding tubes removed from any mentally incompetent patient in Florida who doesn't have a living will or other advance directive stating otherwise. Experts predict fewer than 12 percent of American adults have living wills.

The measure faces stiff opposition. Senate President Jim King, a fellow Jacksonville Republican who helped craft the state's current right-to-die statutes and controls which bills reach the chamber floor, said Tuesday that Wise's bill will go nowhere in the 2004 session.

Wise said it's the Schiavo case that persuaded him to introduce the ``Starvation and Dehydration of Persons with Disabilities Prevention Act.'' The measure would require courts and medical professionals to presume that mentally incapacitated patients would want life-sustaining nutrition and hydration unless they have a written document stating otherwise.

A disagreement among family members over Schiavo's wishes led to the current controversy over her care.

``The Schiavo case is he- said, she-said, who-said - and she's not able to talk,'' Wise said. ``I don't know who said what. And that's the issue we wanted to get to - have something in writing.''

Not so fast, King said. When asked Tuesday whether Wise's bill would get a hearing in the coming session, he abruptly answered, ``No.''

In the 1980s, King was the architect of Florida's right-to- die law, considered a national death-with-dignity model and touted by the Senate leader as one of his key accomplishments.

``I don't want anything on the floor in that Senate that is going to give platforms to people who want to roll back the hands of time for whatever reason,'' King said. ``As soon as you put something on the floor, as well-intended as it may be, anybody can amend it. Then all of a sudden I'm sitting there facing a bill or bills that can dismantle what I consider to be my legacy.''

Wise acknowledged that he crafted the bill with the help of Florida Right To Life and the Florida Catholic Conference.

As written, Wise's bill contains a glitch that could allow the end of treatment to someone providing ``express and informed consent.'' That could be interpreted as verbal direction, but Wise said that language was included in error and would be stricken.

Larry Spalding, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said there is a constitutional issue with requiring end-of-life wishes in writing.

Spalding offered the example of a physician tending to a patient in a vegetative state who has no written instructions. Even if all family members agreed withdrawal of treatment was what the patient wanted, the doctor is setting himself up for civil or criminal penalties if he abides, Spalding said.

The doctor ``would have to say, `I'm sorry, we're going to have to continue to provide treatment whether he would have wanted it or not,' '' Spalding said. ``If you're going to make [the law] so strong as to say, `No, not even if all the players agree,' ... I just can't see a court sustaining that.''

The problem is Jim King of Jacksonville. He must be voted
out in 2004 ! He's the Kingpin in these new death camps
for profit...operations.

He's a evil man, and why in God name is he the president
of the Florida Senate ??

Her room is nowhere near where we convene on "the lawn".

Sad to say, but for Terri, I don't think so.

I think that if Terri is allowed to live, a number of people, some in high places, will be in trouble. Since it those who control Terri's fate that would be in jeapordy, they will not allow her to live.

In my opinion when the plot was hatched, they thought that could work under the cover of darkness, so to speak. They never envisioned to exposure they are now receiving.

The Terri Schiavo Case

Guardian asks, can Schiavo eat?

The governor's appointee says there seems little hope of
recovery, but requests swallowing tests.

By WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE, Times Staff Writer
Published December 3, 2003

Jay Wolfson met with Terri Schiavo almost daily during the last month. He
watched her closely when her parents visited. When her husband visited.

Wolfson looked into her eyes. He held her hand.

But during his visits, Wolfson said he saw no consistent sign that the severely
brain-damaged woman still retains even a spark of consciousness.

Wolfson, an independent guardian appointed to investigate the case, reported
on Tuesday that "competent, well-documented information" shows Mrs.
Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with little hope of recovery.

But Wolfson's report to Gov. Jeb Bush also recommended a new set of
swallowing tests to see if Mrs. Schiavo can eat and drink on her own. If so, he
said, it might be presumed Mrs. Schiavo would want to live.

The report by Wolfson, a University of South Florida professor, reinforces the
assertion by Mrs. Schiavo's husband that she cannot recover and has no
awareness of her surroundings. At the same time, the report offers Mrs.
Schiavo parents hope that further testing might prolong their daughter's life.

Lawyers for both Mrs. Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, and her parents,
Bob and Mary Schindler, claimed victory after the report's release.

"He's recommending something that we asked the courts to do in August but
were summarily denied," said attorney Pat Anderson, who represents Mrs.
Schiavo's parents.

George Felos, an attorney representing Mrs. Schiavo's husband, also hailed the
report.

"I'm very pleased the guardian found the court process legitimate and finds that
the court without a doubt acted properly," Felos said.

Wolfson's appointment to investigate the case was mandated by "Terri's Law,"
the measure adopted by state lawmakers on Oct. 21 that allowed Bush to
order doctors to reinsert the feeding tube after she went six days without food
and water.

Wolfson's report does not provide Bush with clear, immediate direction on
whether the governor should reverse his order reinserting Mrs. Schiavo's
feeding tube. And the report is not binding on the parties.

Bush, who championed the appointment of a guardian, found himself faced
with a report that might be used by critics as proof the feeding tube should not
have been reinserted.

Bush, however, said he would not reverse his order, saying, "I am concerned
that too many open questions still remain."

Wolfson also recommended the appointment of a permanent guardian to look
out for Mrs. Schiavo, who collapsed in 1990 after a suffering cardiac arrest.

"Sometimes good law is not enough, good medicine is not enough, and all too
often, good intentions do not suffice," Wolfson said. "Sometimes, the answer is
in the process, not the presumed outcome. We must be left with hope that the
right thing will be done well.

"We are, each of us, standing in Theresa Marie Schiavo's shoes."

Wolfson was called upon to offer a recommendation about whether Bush
should reverse his order that the tube be reinserted.

Wolfson said whether Bush orders the feeding tube kept in place depends on
what swallowing tests determine and whether Mrs. Schiavo has cognitive
function. Wolfson said the test should be done only if both sides agree on how
to use the results.

Mrs. Schiavo, he noted, has been given swallowing tests in the past which
showed she could not ingest food or water without choking and developing
infection.

In a statement, Bush said he is most concerned about whether evidence clearly
shows that Mrs. Schiavo would not want to live by artificial means.

"The state must protect every Floridians' right to life, and in so doing, err on the
side of life," Bush said. "As governor, I will continue to do just that. Nothing in
Dr. Wolfson's report leads me to believe the stay should be lifted at this time,
or that Mrs. Schiavo should be deprived of her right to live."

Mrs. Schiavo, whose 40th birthday is today, collapsed on Feb. 25, 1990, from
a suspected chemical imbalance that some doctors believe was related to
bulimia.

Her husband, who believes his wife cannot recover, says Mrs. Schiavo told
him before her collapse she would never want to be kept alive by artificial
means. Her parents disagree, saying she has some consciousness and would
not want to die.

The relationship between Michael Schiavo and his in-laws is filled with a bitter
animosity that Wolfson said he worked to bridge, calling on the sides to open
themselves to a "fresh, clean-hands start."

But on Sunday, the night before his report was due to the governor, the
negotiations collapsed, Wolfson said.

But on Nov. 30, the night before his report was due to the governor, Wolfson
said the negotiations collapsed.

Wolfson's report offered something for everyone.

He said that Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer's decision to end life
support was firmly grounded in Florida law.

Wolfson dismissed accusations that Michael Schiavo abused his wife or
misused some of the $750,000 she received in a medical malpractice award.

Wolfson said "the evidence is incontrovertible that (Michael Schiavo) gave his
heart and soul to (his wife's) treatment and care."

Wolfson later said, "The Schindlers and the Schiavos are normal, decent
people who have found themselves within the construct of an exceptional
circumstance which none of them, indeed, few normal people could have
imagined."

The guardian said he was touched to see how family interacted with Mrs.
Schiavo at the Pinellas Park hospice that is her home.

"Theresa has a distinct presence about her," Wolfson wrote, noting she makes
sounds and appears to be awake much of the time.

"It would be easy to detach from her if she were comatose, asleep with her
eyes closed and made no noises," he said. "This is the confusing thing for the
lay person about persistent vegetative states."

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/12/03/Tampabay/Guardian_asks__can_Sc.shtml

"EVERYONE WHO HAS TESTIFIED FOR HINO NEVER SAW TERRI HERSELF. THAT IS A DOCUMENTED FACT."

Then please cite the documentation.

Wolfson dismissed accusations that Michael Schiavo abused his wife or misused some of the $750,000 she received in a medical malpractice award.

Wolfson said "the evidence is incontrovertible that (Michael Schiavo) gave his heart and soul to (his wife's) treatment and care."

...until he got her money in his hands.