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Time to lay Kennedy conspiracy theories to rest
The Chicago Sun-TImes ^ | November 23, 2003 | Editorial

Posted on 11/23/2003 6:40:47 AM PST by GaryL

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To: LS
Your# 5.......

Posner was on the History Channel today debating David Lifton and Mark Lane and he blew them out of the water. Eventually, he showed that Lifton is a kook---and that for anyone to accept L.'s ideas, you had to discount ALL physical evidence as "fradulent" or "forged," and then he turned Lifton's own evidence against Lane and said that even Lifton held out the possibility of a shooter from behind.

I've invited Lifton to the university campus twice in 10 years---very popular---and when you get him alone, his notions just collapse because he claims all the audiotapes were doctored, the Zapruder film was doctored, and, of course, all autopsy photos and x-rays were frauds. I admit he has some fascinating evidence on changes between Dallas and Bethesda on the body (which, to my mind, Posner did an unsatisfying job of explaining or refuting) but once you get past that, his ideas totally collapse. Oh, and for all those who saw "smoke" on the grassy knoll. Funny, my ammunition is smokeless. Guess those Corsican/Mafia/Vietnamese/Cuban/LBJ hitmen weren't smart enough to use smokeless ammo.

Are you going to write a book?

361 posted on 11/24/2003 8:52:29 AM PST by maestro
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To: DustyMoment
I'm curious to know who had what on Ruby to coerce him to kill Oswald ...

Ruby worked for Sam "Mooney" Giancana, the head of the Outfit in Chicago. Mooney sent him to Dallas way before the assassination to do favors for the police and get in good with them while establishing a useful "presence" there.

Source: Doublecross by Mooney's brother and son (written after Mooney's death). Unfortunately most of my books are in storage so I can't check the dates and am relying on memory here, but I'm sure Ruby was originally sent there just to establish Outfit influence in Dallas. I just can't remember if he was sent there in time to have worked on "helping" the election of JFK--which most people acknowledge the mob did in IL and TX.

My point being that I'm pretty sure the Giancana book did NOT indicate that Ruby was originally sent there for the purpose of killing Oswald, but he sure was there and handy after the mob (including the Outfit) got very, very angry with JFK.

362 posted on 11/24/2003 8:55:26 AM PST by Sal
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To: maestro
HAHA. Already have, though not on this subject. Go to Amazon and do a search under "Schweikart."

I have, however, written a new book that deals with the press's failure to cover the assassination properly because of its ties to the JFK administration, leaving it to people like Lifton to uncover the "interesting" stuff. No conspiracy, but all this was avoidable if the news media had just done its job.

363 posted on 11/24/2003 9:05:35 AM PST by LS
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To: LS
Thank you!

Best wishes!

.....'media' = me-dia,.....no?

/sarcasm

Happy Thanksgiving!

;-)

364 posted on 11/24/2003 9:12:46 AM PST by maestro
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To: maestro
Thanks! It's already been a "happy thanksgiving," and we'll just celebrate it on Thursday!
365 posted on 11/24/2003 9:22:42 AM PST by LS
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To: Fester Chugabrew
How long (from 12:30 p.m. 11/22/03) did it take James Tague to come forward and make his injury known?

Patrolman Clyde Haygood was the officer that tried to jump the curb on his Harley, he could make it and dumped it on the north curb of Elm then ran towards the north end of the railroad overpass. He wqas followed by a crowd of about 14 people. At the top he and they watched for a moment as the motorcade headed toward the Stemmons Freeway.

He turned around and returned to his bike, drove down through the underpass, came back, and was flagged down by Tague who said he felt a "sting" on his cheek during the shooting. Haygood saw the blood on Tague's cheek and radioed a report in. It was "a few seconds before 12:35" according to the dispatchers notes. Haygood himself testified that the time was around 12:40.

Haygood then asked Tague to show him where Tague was when he was wounded. They walked to the spot and found a mark in the curb about 20 feet away. They called over a deputy searching for evidence on Main street. Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers came over and agreed that the mark was a bullet shot. Walthers testified that he thought it most likely came from the TSBD.

366 posted on 11/24/2003 10:09:57 AM PST by dread78645 (Hating Libertarians doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: RISU
Thanks for sharing this with with me. I'd like to hear your thoughts after you read it. Hope you'll contact me.
Best regards
367 posted on 11/24/2003 10:54:52 AM PST by GaryL
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To: dread78645
Thanks. I think the sound off that embankment was a misleading echo. I think the curb chip and wound were from a shot that went through JFK and then bounced off a thing or two.
368 posted on 11/24/2003 11:10:57 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Shooter 2.5
.
369 posted on 11/24/2003 11:35:23 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: GaryL
Done, I will contact you via message. Give it a week or so. Thnx again.

Rick
370 posted on 11/24/2003 12:15:50 PM PST by RISU
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To: Sal
As I recall the story (and on this part of it, my memory is about as dusty as your books in storage [don't you hate that?]) Ruby had been in Dallas running a relatively sleazy nightclub for at least two years. The cops knew him well because he was always hanging around the police station.

As the result of his relationship with the police, they didn't raise a collective eyebrow when he showed up to observe Oswald's perp walk out of the lockup facility to the county jail.

I had forgotten about Ruby's connection to Sam Giancana. Jeez, all this reminiscing over the Kennedy assassination has brought up just how ugly this whole story got. I was better off when I had forgotten most of it.
371 posted on 11/24/2003 12:34:43 PM PST by DustyMoment
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To: dread78645
no, I was Italian
372 posted on 11/24/2003 2:47:34 PM PST by breakem
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To: Fester Chugabrew; Shooter 2.5; RANGERAIRBORNE
I think the sound off that embankment was a misleading echo.

Most of the witnesses that claimed the shot came from the "grassy knoll" were badgered by the investigators with questions of "could it be an echo?". Well, of course it could have been an echo!
Those that stated that the shot came from the TSBD didn't get asked.

I think the curb chip and wound were from a shot that went through JFK and then bounced off a thing or two.

That's where it falls apart (see my #344). The "magic bullet" went thru JFK, then into John Connelly; then later was recovered nearly intact (note: it was not "pristine", but somewhat flattened around the lateral).

According to the WC report, the "head shot" fragments could barely crack the windshield; much less travel another 200+ feet and take out the chunk of concrete that injured Tague.
Nearly 75% of the weight of the "head-shot" round was recovered inside the car.

So:
1 round -- curb/Tague
1 round -- Kennedy neck/Connelly wounds.
1 round -- Kennedy head shot.

Anything else means the brass count was false
--or there were more than 3 rounds.

373 posted on 11/24/2003 11:25:36 PM PST by dread78645 (Hating Libertarians doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: dread78645
I think we'd have to rule out the head shot round as injuring Mr. Tague. Have you seen any documentation showing his position WRT the purported line of fire and the motorcade? As far as I'm concerned, any bullet fired from a high powered rifle can go anywhere once it hits another object. Too bad we didn't have the forensic techniques and zeal back then that we have today.

Meanwhile Don Hewitt does not accept the answer, "What difference would it make?" when Robert (or was it Ted?) Kennedy was asked if he thought his brother died at the hands of more than one gunman. Hewitt thinks it was a conspiracy, too. Hey, if you're looking for a big story why not make one up, or at least pretend there is one to be uncovered?

But the author of this article does recognize one thing: The Consitution has suffered a continued, steady sacking ever since. Nothing that FDR didn't already begin.

374 posted on 11/25/2003 7:21:38 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
I think we'd have to rule out the head shot round as injuring Mr. Tague. Have you seen any documentation showing his position WRT the purported line of fire and the motorcade? As far as I'm concerned, any bullet fired from a high powered rifle can go anywhere once it hits another object. Too bad we didn't have the forensic techniques and zeal back then that we have today.

Tague1 and Tague3 showing the two possibilities of either the head shot or being deflected by the oak tree.

Here and here are some diagrams that assume a shot coming from the Dal-Tex building.

...Don Hewitt ..."What difference would it make?" ...

He's right in a sense.

To me, the minor matter of more than one shooter(s) is overwhelmed by the crass arrogance shown by the CIA, FBI, and probably the Secret Service in obstructing the investigation. Like Nixon's Watergate, the cover-up was much more serious than the original petty crime it was supposed to bury.

375 posted on 11/25/2003 8:29:46 AM PST by dread78645 (Hating Libertarians doesn't make you a conservative.)
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To: dread78645
Thanks for the links. The Tague pictures do not show path to curb, but directly to Tague? The trajectory does not appear to require any major deflection to reach the curb. I certainly don't think the tree was hit. I think all three bullets wounded JFK and/or Conally. But then . . . I've got a lot more reading to do. I agree the investigation was handled poorly, but I am not yet persuaded of a huge conspiracy.

376 posted on 11/25/2003 11:02:02 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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