M-16 Rifle May Be on Way Out of U.S. Army

AP, Yahoo! ^ | 11-22-03 | Slobodan Lekic

[Ex-Dem]

BAGHDAD, Iraq - After nearly 40 years of battlefield service around the globe, the M-16 may be on its way out as the standard Army assault rifle because of flaws highlighted during the invasion and occupation of Iraq (news - web sites).

U.S. officers in Iraq say the M-16A2 — the latest incarnation of the 5.56 mm firearm — is quietly being phased out of front-line service because it has proven too bulky for use inside the Humvees and armored vehicles that have emerged as the principal mode of conducting patrols since the end of major fighting on May 1.

The M-16, at nearly 40 inches, is widely considered too long to aim quickly within the confines of a vehicle during a firefights, when reaction time is a matter of life and death.

"It's a little too big for getting in and out of vehicles," said Brig. Gen. Martin Dempsey, commander of the 1st Armored Division, which controls Baghdad. "I can tell you that as a result of this experience, the Army will look very carefully at how it performed."

Instead of the M-16, which also is prone to jamming in Iraq's dusty environment, M-4 carbines are now widely issued to American troops.

The M-4 is essentially a shortened M-16A2, with a clipped barrel, partially retractable stock and a trigger mechanism modified to fire full-auto instead of three-shots bursts. It was first introduced as a personal defense weapon for clerks, drivers and other non-combat troops.

"Then it was adopted by the Special Forces and Rangers, mainly because of its shorter length," said Col. Kurt Fuller, a battalion commander in Iraq and an authority on firearms.

Fuller said studies showed that most of the combat in Iraq has been in urban environments and that 95 percent of all engagements have occurred at ranges shorter than 100 yards, where the M-4, at just over 30 inches long, works best.

Still, experience has shown the carbines also have deficiencies. The cut-down barrel results in lower bullet velocities, decreasing its range. It also tends to rapidly overheat and the firing system, which works under greater pressures created by the gases of detonating ammunition, puts more stress on moving parts, hurting its reliability.

Consequently, the M-4 is an unlikely candidate for the rearming of the U.S. Army. It is now viewed as an interim solution until the introduction of a more advanced design known as the Objective Individual Combat Weapon, or OICW.

There is no date set for the entry into service of the OICW, but officers in Iraq say they expect its arrival sooner than previously expected because of the problems with the M-16 and the M-4.

"Iraq is the final nail in the coffin for the M-16," said a commander who asked not to be identified.

The current version of the M-16 is a far cry from the original, which troops during the Vietnam War criticized as fragile, lacking power and range, and only moderately accurate. At the time, a leading U.S. weapons expert even recommended that American soldiers discard their M-16s and arm themselves with the Kalashnikov AK-47 rifle used by their Vietcong enemy.

Although the M16A1 — introduced in the early 1980s — has been heavily modernized, experts say it still isn't as reliable as the AK-47 or its younger cousin, the AK-74. Both are said to have better "knockdown" power and can take more of a beating on the battlefield.

[archy]

Bring back the M14!

What do you bet HK gets the new Army contract?

When we come up with a design that's produced by several contractors, as Winchester, TRW and H&R did alongside Springfield Armory in the case of the M14, and as Colt, General Motors/ [Hydramatic] and FN International have done with the M16, we'll likely have a real winner again. Single-sourced small arms procurement has got to go.

[archy]

Wow, and they complained that the M-16 looked like a toy gun...
Does indeed look like a smoother, sleeker version of the HK G36.

Oh, but I've got lots of questions for you.
What material is it made out of?

Polymer and steel for the most part. I'm told it's a modified Zytel 6, with a composite carbon/graphite/boron content, similar to the stuff space shuttle tiles are made of. I'll reserve judgement on that until I've tried it.

Some sort of plastic composite?

Yep. also like the new Israeli Tavor. But note that as the Russian *Grozny* proves, stamped sheet metal is still a viable choice.

Does it take a grenade launcher?

Oh yes. It's meant to work with the Alliant OICW 20mm round. And it's a good bet an intirm 40mm version can be adapted; either the M203 as adapted to the M4 carbine; or possibly the new 40mm unit fitted to some British L85A2 rifles.

They aren't going to keep that ridiculous color scheme, are they?

What, you don't like the DeWalt Power Tools commemoritive version? The nice thing about polymers and plastic composites is that can come out any coplour that's desired. There are some fairly nice neutral grey offerings, but an olive drab version is the more likely bet.

See more details and speculation in the FReepthread *here*.

-archy-/-

[Iris7]

I remember hearing that story myself in the old days. I knew enough about such things that I was very skeptical then. Then the Soviet cartridges were unknown here except for their caliber designations, to explain the situation to any readers unfamiliar with those times.

I remember the person telling me this story well enough to vouch for his complete belief in it's truth.

[gdc61]

as for accuracy i found them quite comparable(both my sks' are pre-ban W/ milled recievers, no stamped parts like some of the AK's. the AR-15 was more likely to jam up, cleaned or fired. i have raelly abused my one chinese SKS, dropped it, forgot to clean it, left it leaning against against my jeep overnight in the rain......and it still just keeps on working. thirty rounds as fast as i can squeeze WOOO HOOO. and ammo a fraction the price!(Just bought a 1000 round tin this summer and it half gone! 60 bucks+shipping)

[neverdem]

Thanks for posting this article. BANG

[El Gato]

My goodness, what an amazingly erroneous statement. The 7.62x39 in no way is interchangeable with the 7.62x54, nor the 5.56x39 with the 5.7(about)x44.

Correct, but ours is the 5.56x45, theirs is the 5.45x39. Theirs is basically a 7.62x39 case, necked down to take the smaller bullet. Muzzle velocity and bullet weight are comparable to 5.56X45.

[neverdem]

BANG

[neverdem]

You wrote about your D.I. firing an M14 with its butt on his crotch.

I tried the grenade launcher of a M203 just to the side of my jewels. I din't do it a 2nd time. I Thank G-D I didn't put it on my jewels. Talk about young and dumb.

[Iron-sight Sniper]

Why don't we re-chamber the M-16, M-4, and M-249 (SAW) for 7.62, to give it a LOT more knock-down power; make them a little more durable, since we're trying to win a war, not a beauty pagent; give the M-16 full auto fire, to make it better for CQB; and make a sub-machine gun version in .45, also good for CQB.

[Rebelbase]

"prefer the SKS hands down"

Its a great gun!

[Poohbah]

The Germans spent decades trying to perfect caseless cartridges and even had a working prototype rifle. They finally gave up on it in the early 90's.

Actually, the G11-K2 was ready for issue in 1990. The budget got axed when German reunification hit--the need was less urgent, and money was needed elsewhere.

[CholeraJoe]

Bring back the M14!

That's the first thing I've heard in a week that makes any sense. I carried one in basic training. It's a heavy mother but will put out some lethal metal. I bought the civilian version about a month ago and stocked up on tracer ammo and hi-cap mags.

If the humvee soldiers need a reliable, compact weapon bring back the M3A1 Grease Gun.

[CholeraJoe]

Ditto on the M-14. When I transitioned from the M-14 to the M-16, the firearms instructor was careful to tell us the M-16 was not to be used with a bayonet the same way as the M-14 unless one wished to end up with two weapons. Both of them clubs.

[Iron-sight Sniper]

***Just bought a 1000 round tin this summer and it half gone! 60 bucks+shipping***

Where did you get that?!?

My brother has a yugo sks, and gets wolf ammo at $75 for 1000 excluding S&H

[M Kehoe]

Bttt.

5.56mm

[Fred Hayek]

AK74 uses a 5.45mm round, the M16/AR15 uses a 5.56mm round

[Momaw Nadon]

[archy]

Hey archy - I like the M16. Carried one for years.

But if I were in Iraq, I would aquire an AK74S.

Note that the Russian troops- vehicle drivers, radio operators, and those working crew-served weapons- issued the AKS74U *Krinkov* are frequently less than thrilled with it, and try to pick up a full 16-inch barrelled AK74S just like those you prefer. Accordingly, MikTim Kalishnikov and his elves at the Isvezh arms factory have come up with the OC-14 *Groza-1* bullpup version of the AK with a 16-inch barrel, yet still nicely compact, and suitable for use with the underbarrel-mounted GP30 grenade launcher.

I doubt that either is the *ultimate* AK, and that further developmental spinoffs will likely appear. But it's interesting to note that the Russians felt the return to the 7,62x39mmM43 cartridge was called for, and that the newer 5,45mm cartridge may not thought to be the answer in quite every situation. At least for their situation. I sort of prefer the RPK, myself. When I can't get my hands on a SVD.

[Euro-American Scum]

When we come up with a design that's produced by several contractors. . . we'll likely have a real winner again. Single-sourced small arms procurement has got to go.

In an ideal world, perhaps. But the world is far from ideal. I only know HK moved an entire facility to Smyrna, GA -- manufacturing, sales, R&D from what I hear. And I'll bet they didn't go to such considerable effort and expense just to sell USP pistols to the public.

I just wonder if the deal wasn't already signed, sealed and delivered long before HK invested in their Georgia plant.

[Renfield]

The idea for a cartridge like this (the 6.5 Grendel) occurred to me independently years ago, but I didn't have the wherewithal to produce one...I've been wondering for a long time when such a cartridge would evolve.