Some Relevant Facts About the JFK Assassination

Newsmax ^ | 11/19/2003 | Phil Brennan

[Shooter 2.5]

That's an honest question. This picture is frame 312. It's a milisecond before the impact shot. If you look at the picture, Kennedy is slumped into Jackie and he's apparently angled to the left. That would explain the rear shot. Oswald hit on the right of the centerline of Kennedy's head.

Any shot from the knoll would have hit the right side of his head and blown out the left side.

[dtel]

It is very amusing.
Why do they even feel the need to say over and over,
"Oswald did it and that's all there is to it"

Who you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

[aristeides]

Clinton was an undergraduate at Georgetown in D.C. and at the same time was on Fulbright's staff, all during LBJ's presidency. That's when he learned the ropes of politics.

Interesting article in this morning's Washington Times, Witness to a murder, by Hugh Aynesworth, who is now the Washington Times's Dallas bureau chief, and in 1963 was a reporter for the Dallas Morning News, has the following two paragraphs:

The Metro section [of the Dallas Morning News] carried an interview with former Vice President Richard Nixon, in town under his lawyer's hat for meetings with Pepsi-Cola bottlers.

Nixon was scheduled to fly out of Love Field two hours before the man who barely edged him for the presidency in 1960 would land aboard Air Force One. At a Baker Hotel press conference, Nixon predicted his old rival might drop Vice President Lyndon Johnson from the ticket in his 1964 re-election campaign if the Texan proved to be a political liability.

Not only does this seem to settle the matter of Nixon's whereabouts at the time, it could also show that Nixon was reminding LBJ of why he ought to continue to go along with the conspiracy, if there was one.

[maestro]

" Team 'Oswald'..."

(....'TO'....)

/sarcasm

[BOOTSTICK]

Even according to CBS News { a strong proponant of the "Oswald acted alone" theory"} stated that after the shooting ; "Oswald hopped into a waiting car". Which of course proves a conspiracy.

[tpaine]

Let's declare Oswald the fastest, sharpest shooter in history.
Our times Michael Jordan of rifle sharpshooting.

Each year, we can have a tournament - The Oswald Challenge, or maybe the JFK Memorial.
Shooters fire from a platform six stories high and fires at a moving target through a tree planted in the shooters line of fire. The man who scores two hits in 8.1 seconds wins a million dollars.
The tourney could be held yearly until there is a winner.
156 -RofDs-

---

No need for the contest, we have one of the self-proclaimed fastest, sharpest shooters in history right here at FR.

[tpaine]

dtel wrote:
It is very amusing.

Why do they even feel the need to say over and over,
"Oswald did it and that's all there is to it"

---

It may be the "I ~must~ be obeyed" obsession.
Self proclaimed experts in all fields apparently become convinced of their own infallabiity, because no one can refute the facts as they ~imagine~ them to be.. Odd people.

[dread78645]

This parenthetical aside is a little confusing to me. What do you mean by "colored"? The original Zapruder film was photographed in color... specifically 8mm Kodachrome II color film.

Correct. The original was in color and developed at the Kodak labs in Dallas that afternoon. Zapruder, Kodak personnel and investigators viewed the film once, and then Kodak declined to show it again for fear of accidental damage.

Zapruder had a local film company make 3 copies, 2 were turned over to the FBI. The third and original were sold to LIFE magazine for print rights. In Chicago LIFE somehow damaged 6 frames and left 2 or 3 splices in the original. After viewing the film, LIFE purchased the television and movie rights for $150,000.
The Warren Commission saw the copies given to the FBI and LIFE let them view the original so they could be satified that the copies were trustworthy. The WC report included frames 171-334 of the film in black & white. These were the only way the press could get the film. The government printing office eventually filled 3,500 requests for copies of the B&W excerpt. Many of these were re-"colorized" for various reasons.

In 1968 LIFE had a film lab in New Jersey make a copy of the original on long lasting film stock. LIFE was given the best copy and the general manager of the lab, Moses Weitzman, kept the rejects. Various reprints of Weitzman's film leaked out, one of them was used by Jim Garrison in New Orleans.

In 1975 Time-Life releases it's copyright back to the Zapruder family and the National Archives agrees to accept the original (damaged & deteriorating) film as a courtesy.
In 1997 the ARRB wanted to purchase the film outright. But complications arose when appraisers estimated the film’s value in the millions of dollars. On April 24th 1997, they confiscate the film by designating it an assassination record.
In August 1999, the Justice Department awarded $16 million plus interest to the Zapruder family as compensation for the government’s taking of the film.

After the FBI tests, Bell & Howell traded Zapruder a newer model camera for his original. In 1966 it was donated to the National Archives.

[Wolfstar]

Because by the time the second bullet had passed almost through two people...

The round that killed the president seems to explode on entry. Why didn't the round that hit his back/throat also explode on entry? Whether or not it also hit Connolly is immaterial to this question.

I don't know if there was one shooter or two. I try to make up my own mind rather than be swayed by various conspiracy hucksters whose agendas are mostly to make a buck off the assassination. What I do know from hard evidence that the bullet that hit the president's head and the one that hit his back/throat seemed to behave differently. Perhaps there's a logical ballistics reason, but I'm not qualified in that area to make my own reasoned judgement.

[Wolfstar]

If we speculate there were two shooters to the rear, with two different guns/loads, one with expansive type bullets, it all becomes very possible.

Yes, it does. The Connollys only heard three shots, but they both remained steadfast that it was the second shot that hit John Connolly. I know human memory is a faulty thing. Physical evidence often contradicts eyewitness accounts in criminal trials.

But what makes me give credence to their memories is: (a) The fact that John Connolly was a hunter with considerable experience with firearms. (b) He knew instantly that the sound was not a backfire, but a gunshot, and his immediate concern was for the president. (c) He always said he heard the second shot and then felt himself being hit. (d) Nelly Connolly has consistently said, as recently as yesterday morning, that she heard the second shot, saw blood all over her husband, and then pulled him down into her lap.

Granted, the sequence of events all happened in seconds, so what might seem like discrete occurrances are actually not. For example, the Connollys could indeed have heard the second shot, but simultaneously with his being hit by the bullet that went through the president's throat. It could have been the second shot that missed. But some intuition in me makes me believe John and Nelly Connolly were right along - the second shot hit him. If that is true, there must have been a second shooter.

[Shooter 2.5]

Do you want to fall on a trampoline or a sidewalk?

Because the bullet that hit the President in the skull did so at full velocity. That's 2000 Feet a Second. It broke up inside the skull as two major projectiles and when it exited, damaged the windshield and the chrome.

You're forgetting that the bullets hit different surfaces. The second bullet didn't hit bone until it hit Connelly's rib. It left a long wound since it was already unstable from loss of velocity.

[Shooter 2.5]

They matched all the fragments and the second bullet to Oswald's rifle.

They never found the first bullet that hit the concrete and caused the hit on the bystander's cheek. They also don't know if it was concrete or a fragment that caused the injury.

[Wolfstar]

I am not arguing for or against any conspiracy theory, nor do I wish to dissuade anyone who believes in whole or in part in what the cottage industry in conspiracy theories put out. I am arguing for the truth. The Zapruder film is the best physical evidence we have of what happened that day. No, it was never doctored. Immediately after the assassination, Zapruder sold the rights to Life Magazine, which published a number of frames. They did not publish the most gruesome frames at that time out of respect for Mrs. Kennedy. However, what it showed was known to investigators and the media at that time.

Once the entire film became public, the truth about the direction of the head shot was there for anyone to see. Even Oliver Stone's movie "JFK" shows it faithfully. The upper right side of the president's head literally explodes. There is no question he died instantly, even if some of his organs continued to function long enough for frantic resussitation efforts to occur at Parkland.

I think ABC is going to have a special on tonight using modern advanced techniques to analyze the assassination. Tune in and you will see the Zapruder film for yourself.

Just in case you can't see it, as plainly as I can describe it in text form, here's what it shows: The president is first hit in the back/throat, his arms fly up and his hands appear to clutch his throat. Mrs. Kennedy is initially confused as she looks toward her husband. John Connolly, who testified that he knew instantly that it was a shot, begins turning in his seat to try to see the president. He is shot and Mrs. Connolly had the presence of mind to pull him down into her lap. Although the president begins to slump in his seat, Mrs. Kennedy did not react as quickly as Mrs. Connolly. The fatal shot hits the president's head and there is a massive, genuinely explosive spray of blood, bone and brain matter upward, outward, and to the front over his right temple area. In slow motion, you can see a piece of what is probably bone shoot straight up.

A huge portion of skin and bone blow outward from above and just in front of the right ear, remains attached, and dangles over his right cheek. The explosive force of the explosion at the upper right of his head snaps the president's body in the opposite direction, back and to the left. It is at that point that Mrs. Kennedy get's up and seems to try to leave the car. She is then pushed into the car, which speeds away.

Why do some (not all) doctors at Parkland that day say they remember the large wound to be toward the upper back of the head? I don't know, but there are several very rational explanations. The autopsy xrays reveal that the wound was massive. It basically took out the entire right side of the president's head. Mrs. Kennedy said she had tried to, in essence, put his head back together in the car. When he got to Parkland, even though it was obviously a futile effort, the doctors frantically tried to save the man's life. They were not trying to answer the finer points of questions that conspiracy theorists would raise later on. With the flap of skull and scalp that had blown out yet remained attached put back in place by Mrs. Kennedy, it could easily appear on quick examination that the wound was mostly toward the right center-rear of the president's head, which is where the doctors whom I've seen describe the wound, place it.

There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is, not as all the yammering conspriacy hawks have tried to twist it all these years.

[maestro]

There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is There may well have been more than one shooter. I tend to believe so because of the testimony of John and Nelly Connolly. But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is But a genuine search for the truth must also look at the evidence as it really is.........

Great idea!

and,...........the TESTIMONY of John and Nelly Connolly?

:-(

[Shooter 2.5]

I believe the important fact is Nelly Connelly heard only three shots and the three people on the fifth floor identfied where they came from, namely the floor just above them, the Sixth floor.

[maestro]

?...there were NO echoes...?

[Viva Le Dissention]

I think that's a fair answer, and I appreciate your response.

While I fully admit I have never visited Dallas, the diagrams that I have seen of the plaza (for instance, http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/route.htm), he just seems positioned too far to the right for it to work out the way you are describing it.

I think your explanation is fair, to me it just doesn't seem to fit. In my mind, at the very least, it indicates there was a second shooter, whether or not he was from the front or the rear.

Thanks again for the response.

[wardaddy]

you've acquitted yourself well on this thread.

[texasbluebell]

We all want the truth, and because the govt was so reluctant to give us a clue for all these years, people have to try to figure it out for themselves, using their own areas of expertise.

Are some people off the mark on this? Yes. Others may be getting close to the truth. Whether or not the AZ film or any other evidence was altered we can only try to figure it out for ourselves since no one seems to want us to know the truth.

We can only blame those who control the power for this sad state of affairs, when the murder of the President of the US goes unanswered and justice is denied for 4 decades so far.

How much longer do we have to wait?

No matter how much one hated JFK or revered him, it doesn't matter where one falls on the political spectrum, this is a great injustice.

[asformeandformyhouse]

Other than that, I have no idea. I do remember hearing that a number of Marine snipers tried to re-enact the event using the same distances, angles, car speeds, etc., and they couldn't. Not with the cheapo rifle Oswald was supposed to use, and not with their best sniper rifles.

Untrue. The shooting was recreated using the exact same scenario and equipment. The Mannlicher has a very smooth action. FBI weapons expert Robert Frazier got off three accurate shots with Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in 4.5 seconds -- recycling the mechanism and re-aiming the rifle twice.

Read "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner.