Bonds wins sixth NL MVP Award

Major League Baseball ^ | November 18th, 2003 | Chris Shuttlesworth

[Alberta's Child]

Geez, Victoria. Who the heck am I to tell you anything about sports? -- It sounds like you could write a book about the subject! LOL!

You're absolutely right. Former Montreal Canadiens goaltender Ken Dryden covered this subject in one of the outstanding books he wrote after he retired. He went back through the great Canadian players in the history of hockey, and found that almost every one of them came from smaller towns, from families of ordinary or limited means. Maurice Richard and Mario Lemieux were two of the exceptions -- Richard was from Montreal, and Lemieux was from a town called La Prairie in Quebec, which is basically a suburb of Montreal.

[Chu Gary]

"I really don't wonder why he set the record when he did I ONLY WONDER why HE has NEVER hit 50 in his career BEFORE or AFTER the 74 monster year. That is my question. Except for Hank Aaron I don't think ANY baseball player in HISTORY (I may be wrong) THAT was considered a HOME RUN hitter (you know 500+ HR's in Lifetime) has NOT hit 50 in one or more years. That is why it sticks in my HEAD. WHY so many? 74 and never at least 50?? Maybe it is ONLY my mystery and means little to anyone else."

Actually, you're wrong. Check it out at a baseball reference site. As an example, who's the leading HR hitter of all time (at least in MLB), Hank Aaron; how many times did he hit 50 or more HRs?

[Victoria Delsoul]

On the other hand, if it wasn't for computers and TV, we'd all be playing hockey, hehe.

[Chu Gary]

"All the stars alligned that year. Kind of like Roger Maris who never hit more than 39 HRs until 1961,

Sort of forgetting how they put him 3rd ahead of Mantle ...."

You're right. In addition, 1961 was the first year of the expanded schedule, going from 154 to 162 games during the regular season. Also, the Mick's season ended before the 154th game (injury). Without Mickey to protect him, Roger Maris didn't hit his 61st until sometime during the "extra games," hence the asterisk.

[Alberta's Child]

That's right. LOL.

You'd probably be pretty good, too. ;-)

[Victoria Delsoul]

LOL… I don't know. I like tennis, volleyball, horse riding, and squash.

[Chu Gary]

"Hank Aaron might be the most under-appreciated player of all-time. While his peers, Mays and Mantle, grabbed the headlines, Aaron put up significantly better career numbers than either of them."

Oh no man. If you want to talk about most under-appreciated players, let's include Josh Gibson, Shoeless Joe, Satchel, Nap Lajoie, Ted Williams, etc., etc., etc. Nonetheless, ain't it great to talk about baseball at this length. I don't think there's another sport that evokes passion like baseball does. Luckily, I live in Florida and baseball arrives earlier for me that many others on this thread.

[Alberta's Child]

I like tennis, volleyball, horse riding, and squash.

Hmm. Interesting combination! But where did the affinity for squash come from? LOL!

[Victoria Delsoul]

I think it comes from my dislike for the Democrats, LOL!!!

[Victoria Delsoul]

dislike "of" them. Getting tired, nighty night.

[Alberta's Child]

LOL. ;-)

[Sabertooth]

Hank Aaron played the early part of his career in Milwaukee before the Braves moved to Atlanta. IIRC, the ballpark in Milwaukee was a notorious pitcher's park.

Not so, Milwaukee County Stadium was a bandbox. Matthews and Adcock thrived there, as did Aaron. Later, the likes of Yount, Molitor, and Cooper enjoyed its confines.

Fulton County Stadium was such a hitters park that Davey Johnson hit 43 homers for the Braves in 1973, after never hitting more than 18 for the Orioles.

Hank Aaron might be the most under-appreciated player of all-time. While his peers, Mays and Mantle, grabbed the headlines, Aaron put up significantly better career numbers than either of them.

Not significantly better than Mays by any stretch. Mays was the best five tool player, bar none. He played a more difficult position than Aaron, had a better glove and arm, and played in more difficult hitters' parks in the Polo Grounds and Candlestone (some of the worst turf ever).

[steve8714]

STL is no longer a hub, but it does have $1bn in new runways.

[steve8714]

I didn't say regional bias...hell, the beat writer here voted for Sheffield. I said laziness.

[steve8714]

Instead of walking him they should be hitting him. Why waste a base on balls? Ted sizemore would be in the hall of fame if OBP were really all that.

[steve8714]

That is for two reasons...one is the presence of S. Musial, the other is the 15 PENNANTS they have won. Bonds has three consecutive MVP's, but only one pennant.

[steve8714]

Oh, and by the way, don't tell me about division championships...they are meaningless. We have a few of them, and nobody celebrates. We don't need to win the Series, but it really isn't a successful season without the pennant.

[CommerceComet]

In his career, Hank Aaron hit 385 HRs (50.99%) in his home park and 370 HRs (49.01%) in road parks. This is hardly evidence that his career stats were heavily influenced by his parks. Mays' numbers for comparison were 335 HRs (50.76%) at home against 325 HRs (49.24%) away.

Despite the reputation of Candlestick Park, during their playing days with the Giants both Mays and McCovey were slightly more likely to hit a homerun at home than they were to hit one on the road. Swirling, gusty winds will sometimes hurt, sometimes help a hitter. Candlestick had pretty modest dimensions.

Of course, Mays was a five-tool player but so was Aaron. What skill do you think Hank Aaron was lacking? Mays may have held the edge over Aaron in the field but Aaron was more dangerous with a bat. Mays and Aaron played at the same time against the same competition. In the triple crown statistics, Aaron (who played one more season) held a clear advantage over Mays (.305/755/2297 to .302/660/1903 respectively). That is a significant difference particularly when the "park effects" argument is baseless.

[Sabertooth]

Of course, Mays was a five-tool player but so was Aaron. What skill do you think Hank Aaron was lacking? Mays may have held the edge over Aaron in the field but Aaron was more dangerous with a bat. Mays and Aaron played at the same time against the same competition. In the triple crown statistics, Aaron (who played one more season) held a clear advantage over Mays (.305/755/2297 to .302/660/1903 respectively).

Almost hree more seasons, as Mays missed nearly two to military service. Aaron and Mays are almost identical in batting and slugging. Mays has the edge in slugging (.557 to .555), as well as OBP (.384 too .374) and OPS (.941 to .929). Mays was also a better baserunner than Aaron.

Mays had a better glove and arm than Aaron. Mays is regarded as not only the best centerfielder, but the best outfielder of all time. Aaron wasn't even the best rightfielder of his own time. Clemente and Kaline were both better.

The five tools are hitting, hitting for power, baserunning, fielding, and throwing. Mays and Aaron are even on the first two, and Mays has the edge on latter three.

Willie Mays was a better player than Hank Aaron.

[CommerceComet]

There are several viable candidates for the title of "most under-appreciated" player of all time. That was why I was careful to say Aaron "might be." I don't know if Hank Aaron would be my final choice or not but he would be one of the finalists for sure as would several of the men you listed.