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To: Tribune7
This guy is one of WND's best.

You'd never know it from this. One very good rule of thumb in debate, rhetoric, polemic, and what-have-you, is that you should be able to give an accurate rendering of your opponent's argument, such that he himself would consider your description of his position a fair description - to not do so is to argue dishonestly. By that very elementary test, this article flunks completely. And that's only the beginning, the basic error of form - then you can get into the factual errors. Socrates was not an atheist. Neither was Nietzsche. And so on.

10 posted on 11/17/2003 7:13:53 AM PST by general_re (Me and my vortex, we got a real good thing....)
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To: general_re
One very good rule of thumb in debate...is that you...give...your opponent's argument, such that he himself would consider your description of his position...fair.

Exactly. While I read the Vox Day articles most of the time, this one was not convincing. Which is a shame, because I accept the basic point that valid ethics must have a basis in faith in a Supreme Being. (And I believe you can make a compelling case that Christianity is the best and most sound basis for that faith.)

However, the basis for the 'reason alone is a valid basis for morals' argument is not because Socrates says so. In this case Vox Day is just showing off his erudition, and that's arrogance, not rational discourse.
15 posted on 11/17/2003 7:34:25 AM PST by Gorjus
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To: general_re
Neither was Nietzsche.

Please justify this statement.

138 posted on 11/17/2003 9:37:17 PM PST by little jeremiah
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