To: Indie
I think the truth is simpler: The Soviet Union could no longer afford an empire, and, finally, the Soviet Union could no longer afford itself. Gorbachev tried to make the system less dysfunctional, but it was too little too late. Reagan helped to hasten the end of the old system by a decade or two, but the whole thing would have eventually collapsed anyways or self-destructed in a catastrophic war. Indeed, Reagan was one of the few world leaders who understood just how vulnerable the system was and that the communists were not invincible.
Just because the Soviet Union is no more does not mean that Russia will always happily follow along with America. Nations have had conflicting interests long before communism. Russia is also under the threat of terrorism, and Russia has a history of having close ties with China, being estranged from China, and so on. Come to think about it, America has had a similar relationship with China. If there had been some magical secret handshake that would have solved their problems, there would still be a Soviet empire.
7 posted on
11/15/2003 11:21:31 AM PST by
Wilhelm Tell
(Lurking since 1997!)
To: Wilhelm Tell
The Soviet Union could no longer afford an empire, and, finally, the Soviet Union could no longer afford itself. Gorbachev tried to make the system less dysfunctional, but it was too little too late..." HAH! you've fallen for the oldest trick in the book- the "Perfectly Simulated Melt Down Which Cripples Your Contry In Order to Lull Your Opponents Into A False Sense of Security" charade.
Next, I expect you'll be asking us to believe that Hitler is dead, and the Wermacht is actually NOT biding it's time in secret facilities beneath the Antartic ice cap... /sarcasm
I think the sentence you wrote above sums it up perfectly...but don't expect logic to have much of an effect in this discussion.
To: Wilhelm Tell
I think the truth is simpler: The Soviet Union could no longer afford an empire, and, finally, the Soviet Union could no longer afford itself. Gorbachev tried to make the system less dysfunctional, but it was too little too late.No, no, no, you've got it all wrong. In the 1950s, it became clear to the US that we couldn't defeat the USSR itself in a war. It was suicidal with the rise of nuclear weapons. So we decided the only way to defeat them was via an "inside job". We searched for suitable candidates and selected Gorbachev. We cultivated him for decades, helped his rise to power in 1985, then he collapsed the USSR for us.
The USSR came to a similar realization in the 1960s. The only way to defeat the USA was through an inside job. They found a suitable candidate, carefully cultivated him, paired him with another agent, and helped them in their rise to power. This operation was so secret that not even our own mole, Gorbachev, knew about it. Unfortunately for the Soviets, their agents were seven years too late.
12 posted on
11/15/2003 1:57:50 PM PST by
mikegi
To: Wilhelm Tell
Indeed, Reagan was one of the few world leaders who understood just how vulnerable the system was and that the communists were not invincible. The US has its vulnerabilities too. The welfare state is a magnet to all the poor and uneducated of the world, while governmental regulation is driving more and more business offshore. The collapse here will happen eventually
18 posted on
11/15/2003 5:23:27 PM PST by
SauronOfMordor
(Java/C++/Unix/Web Developer === (Finally employed again! Whoopie))
To: Wilhelm Tell
Wasnt Golitsyn the one who tore the CIA apart? The one who defected claiming a KGB mole at Langley causing Jesus Angleton to go nuts and gut the Agency? Or was that Nosenko? I have never understood why so much is put into defectors claims. Either way, this guys sounds like a nut. Case in point; look at the Far East Military Districts bailiwick-its to defend the Rodina(do they still call it that?) from attack by the "yellow peril". The old russian boogeyman- China. I have a hard time believing in any kind of secret Sino-Russian Military pact.
33 posted on
11/16/2003 9:59:00 PM PST by
cardinal4
(Hillary and Clark rhymes with Ft Marcy park...)
To: Wilhelm Tell
I only wish that I could think as well as you type
52 posted on
02/19/2004 7:08:49 PM PST by
aquawrench
(www.reasons.org)
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