Senate Democrats get final word, and declare victory, in fight over judges

Boston Globe ^ | 11/15/2003 | Jim Abrams

[RJCogburn]

After 40 hours of nonstop talking organized by Republicans to protest filibusters on judicial nominees, Senate Democrats added two more names yesterday to the list of judges they have stalled successfully.

Democrats declared the longest uninterrupted Senate debate in 15 years a victory for their side. Republicans said the Democrats' methods could come back to haunt them.

[Diojneez]

I don't think they have options. The thing is a mess.

This "thing" is a constitutional crisis, precipitated by an unprecedented power grab by a single party, acting in conspiracy.

I think it's time for President Bush to address the nation, and describe his oath of office to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

[duckln]

Do they have any other options to force the nominees to the floor?

Yes
#1 The president could demand a vote. It's my understanding it's been done before.

#2 Frist could send a 'consent' letter to W, with 51+ signatures, and they could then swear listed judges in 'enmass'.

#3 W, like 'Habeas Corpus' Lincoln did, could declare a 'constitution' emergency. Have the Marines put the Democratic leadership in the federal pen, and let the party take it to the Supreme court.
We are so strong in the house that an enpeachment is very unlikly and maybe have 40 'Republican' senators to block a conviction.

We in theory have equal branches of government, but the Supreme Court and Senate fight for and exercise total power. W's oath to protect the constitution is reason enough to 'battle it out' at the highest level.

I wish Frist would have called for a 'rules' change vote. Republicans not supporting the change need be identified, they are worse than the Democrats. constitution be damned.

[Cicero]

Been patient for the last 40 years or so.

Well, in this world, nothing is ever going to be perfect. But we may be within a year of a crucial turning point, if Bush is elected and the Republicans pick up several more senate seats, as seems likely.

Will Bush do everything we would like, even then? No, of course not. But he will do some of the major things we would like. He will continue to defend the country. He will continue to defend the right to life. And he will finally be in a position to make some genuinely conservative judicial appointments.

In the past when this has happened, Republican presidents have given up and COMPROMISED with the Democrats. That gave us Sandra Day O'Connor and, much worse, Justice Souter. At least Bush hasn't done that. He could have gone back to the drawing board and produced a couple of "moderate" "middle of the road" candidates, with the promise that he'll appoint some conservatives later. He hasn't done that, except to a very small degree in his first year in office. I consider this to be a very hopeful sign.

[duckln]

I hope you're right, and that's why the appointment are
piling up right before a recess. Why wouldn't they
grab the wing? With a majority in the senate they would
be guaranteed a deferred 'vote' and be reconfirmed.

[rs79bm]

[Viva Le Dissention]

#3 W, like 'Habeas Corpus' Lincoln did, could declare a 'constitution' emergency. Have the Marines put the Democratic leadership in the federal pen, and let the party take it to the Supreme court.

Are you insane? You actually think that Bush should imprison the Democratic members of the Senate?

It's now official: if no one else has told you, you have completely lost your mind.

[Libloather]

Schumer, Democrat of New York, said Democrats were energized by the GOP-staged talkfest.

Start an open-ended debate and watch the RATS crumble...

[duckln]

We are at war. Hell, they threw Gordon Liddy in jail, along with Nixons' advisors and cabinet members.

Did that bother you? I guess Viva Le Dissention' doesn't mean what I think it means.

[Viva Le Dissention]

Generally, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt on here. While I disagree with a lot of the stuff put on here, I think that, as a whole, reasonable people can disagree.

However, that today must end. I am honestly at a complete and total loss as to how to respond, as this is frankly one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in my entire life. And, frankly, I've heard quite a lot of dumb things.

Not only would what you are saying undermine the entire constitution in its letter AND spirit, it would be political suicide. Not only would Bush be impeached so fast his head would spin--and rightly so, may I add--anyone that didn't vote to impeach the President would be beaten by such a landslide in the next election that it would be laughable.

And I can't BELIEVE you even mentioned Liddy. Yeah, he went to prison--because he committed burglary!

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."

[RJCogburn]

Hell, they threw Gordon Liddy in jail, along with Nixons' advisors and cabinet members.

Who went to jail that didn't deserve to?

[duckln]

Come on , lighten up!

... Liddy. Yeah, he went to prison--because he committed burglary!

For 5 yrs HARD time in a federal pen? I don't think I'm 'dumb', insensitive non PC choice of words on your part, stupid IYO maybe.

Senator Linsey Graham did a superb job at the 'fillibuster' and he said he was inclined to take it to the Supreme Court. How 'stupid' do you think that was? Well little young Linsey may have a uphill fight. But if we had a Daschel, Shummer, or Hillary in the pen to fight over, then it would get the 'public' attention it deserves, and maybe this can be brought to a head.

[duckln]

Who went to jail that didn't deserve to?

All, and I mean all.

We had a unanimously elected second term president. The Washington Post, run by a staunch Democratic broad and two opereratives, with dayjobs as reporters, did a number on Nixon. Worked so well, 'they' have kept it up to this day. But now it's harder to get Republicans to eat their own.

[Republican Wildcat]

I resent this; because it looks like the Republicans are giving in?

How closely did you follow the debate?

[Viva Le Dissention]

I think Liddy got lucky--and I mean lucky--to get five years. If I would have been Jimmy Carter, there's no way I would have pardoned him, even if I had born-again Christian guilt or not.

I'm not even going to discuss Nixon. If it weren't for FDR, he'd be the worst President of the 20th Century. The guy had no respect for the constitution--but wait a minute! since you think Bush should imprison the Senate Democrats, evidentally not having respect for the constitution is a big plus in your book.

Graham can try to appeal to the Supreme Court all he wants. He doesn't have standing. Unless he's a mental midget, he knows he doesn't have standing, and so he said it for rhetoric.

Upon further reflection, I think Bush imprisoning Senate Democrats for filibustering judges could be one of the really few things that a President could do that could potentially lead to armed resistance against the Government. It would be disasterous. Government as we know it would cease to exist.

[duckln]

. If I would have been Jimmy Carter, there's no way I would have pardoned him

Liddy never got 'pardoned'. He got released. To this day, IMO he can't even vote! They almost did the same to Ollie North.

I can't respond to your other comments. IMO you were totally brainwashed. Now you're a little older, I hope. Don't jump on the little 'bandwagon' now underway by Democratic Congressmen to impeach W as a war criminal.

But who knows what the power of the press can be.

[Swampmarine]

Ted Kennedy can get away with this vote in ever so democratic Massachusetts, but several of the Democratic Senators in more moderate George Bush swing states are going to regret this vote next November. It was not a good vote for them, they got rushed by their hard left base, and didn't have the foresight or independence to vote their own constituents' political position. They won't be thinking they "won" come next November. This issue will cost them votes!

[RJCogburn]

Criminals are criminals regardless of their party or adminstrtaion.

I guess if Clinton had been a Republican you would have defended him as well....I guess.

I wouldn't argue about the Wash Post and others, but the guys who went to jail were quite deserving of their fate.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"The media is communist. They won't lift a finger to help us."

That is a Konstant.

[Viva Le Dissention]

Yes, you are correct. His sentence was commuted by Carter; he wasn't pardoned.

So by the way, since you don't really cotton much to the constitution, how do you propose we run the country?

[freekitty]

I said I resent this article because it sounds like the Republicans are giving in.