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To: MindBender26
"Also, the the Constitutio describes militia itself as "well-regulated" not the firearm, so that argument goes out the window. "

Nice try at defenestration, but the shooter has the accuracy requirement not the piece- the rifle hits nothing all by itself and the most accurate cannon must have a crew that can use the accuracy.

Go look up lexicographical sources to see.
272 posted on 11/14/2003 10:01:09 AM PST by DBrow
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To: MindBender26; justshutupandtakeit
http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm

"The meaning of the phrase "well-regulated" in the 2nd amendment

From: Brian T. Halonen

The following are taken from the Oxford English Dictionary, and bracket in time the writing of the 2nd amendment:

1709: "If a liberal Education has formed in us well-regulated Appetites and worthy Inclinations."

1714: "The practice of all well-regulated courts of justice in the world."

1812: "The equation of time ... is the adjustment of the difference of time as shown by a well-regulated clock and a true sun dial."

1848: "A remissness for which I am sure every well-regulated person will blame the Mayor."

1862: "It appeared to her well-regulated mind, like a clandestine proceeding."

1894: "The newspaper, a never wanting adjunct to every well-regulated American embryo city."

The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter.

It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected.

Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it."

http://yarchive.net/gun/politics/regulate.html
This link takes the meaning as "properly functioning" and not as operating under "regulations"; it mentions clocks and the accuracy of double-barrel shotguns.

The Compact Edition of Oxford English Dictionary
Oxford University Press (c)1971
First pub 1971
Twenty-Third Printing in the U.S., January 1984
defines "regulated" when referring to troops as "well disiplined" and stated that the term is obsolete, no loger used to refer to troops.

http://www.frii.com/~gosplow/liberty.html

"For many in our time, it is inconceivable to think of anything being well-regulated without a law mandating the regulation and a bureaucracy to conduct the regulation. In the 18th century, the word regulation did not at all require government involvement. The actions of the American colonists make it plain that a well-regulated militia was well-rehearsed and well-drilled without the control of the government. Indeed, the colonial well-regulated militias shot at the King's policemen (the King's soldiers were acting in the capacity we now consider a police function, but there were no police departments then)."

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The use of the phrase "well regulated" in the 2nd amend. does not mean "regulated by the government". You are both correct in pointing out to me that the phrase does not strictly refer to "accuracy" or "marksmanship", but you must see that this is one use of the phrase from period sources. Other period sources also use the phrase to mean "working correctly" or perhaps even "well drilled".

The meaning of the term has shifted over the years- in the 17- and 1800's there were not as many "regulations" as there are now. Today, we automatically think of "government regulations" since our government seems to regulate everything, "well" or not.

When the 2nd was written, though, it did not mean "government regulation" at all.

288 posted on 11/14/2003 10:34:09 AM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow
Ask 100 judges if "well-regulated" means

"Controled and Supervised"

or

"Accurate"


PLEASE DO NOT PIN OUR LEGAL STANDING ON THIS ARGUMENT!
293 posted on 11/14/2003 10:37:09 AM PST by MindBender26 (For more news as it happens, stay tuned to your local FReeper Network station)
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