[beavus]

Turns out the smartest thing is not what you've said on this thread, but rather what you haven't said.

When is the beginning? Answer: There isn't one, of course. Nature doesn't work that way.

Perhaps you've finally been cured of your poofishness.

[MHGinTN]

Would you recognize the testimony of Dr. Jerome Lejeune, in order to answer your query? ... I wouldn't offer my own since you obsess in such juvenile ways in response to my words. How about the sworn testimony of one of the World's greatest geneticists? [Incidentally, would you like to cite expert sources for your assertion that there is no beginning for an individual's lifetime?]

[hocndoc]

The stated object of Bishop Carnley's remarks is to remove the protection from killing and right to life for the first 14 days of the lives of embryos which begin with sperm injection and all in vitro fertilization techniques, as well as cloning.

[hocndoc]

The life of an individual human being begins at the fusion of the cells of the sperm and the oocyte. It also begins when the sperm nucleus is injected into the oocyte or a somatic cell nucleus is injected into the cytoplasm of an oocyte which has had its nucleus removed.

Evidence: isolate gametes in the appropriate medium in flasks in the lab. The cells will not divide, and will with certainty die in a day or two, unless frozen. When thawed, they will continue in their dying as long as isolated. On the other hand, if you place the cells resulting from the conditions in paragraph 1 in the same sort of medium, and some will divide, differentiate. At least in the case of sperm + oocyte (and theoretically in the case of Stem cell nuclear transfer - cloning), some of the resulting embryos, if placed into a receptive uterus,(Even if they are frozen and then thawed under the right conditions) will continue their development through normal human develop ment into an adult human being like you, me, or Louis Brown.

The Bishop says that killing the embryo to harvest stem cells is not killing a human being *before* 14 days of life, but it is killing a human being *after* 14 days.