The Facts About The Smoking Ban. If you're a business owner or not, this is a must read!

The Facts Online ^ | 11-01-03 | Dave Hitt

[cinFLA]

• No Economic Impact: Researchers studied the quality and funding sources of 97 studies on the economic impact of smoke-free policies in the hospitality industry that were commissioned by the tobacco industry or organizations not associated with the tobacco industry. They concluded that all of the well-designed studies report that smoke-free restaurant and bar laws have no impact or a positive impact on sales or employment.

[cinFLA]

Hey, don't look for the neo-coms to post anything bad about their hero, Soros....

You've got it all wrong. Soros is xrp's hero.

[xrp]

You've got it all wrong. Soros is cinFLA's hero.

[Gabz]

I am giving you real data - the fact that it is not posted on the web does not make it any less factual.

The fact you choose to believe that which is printed in agenda driven media as opposed to the real life experiences of businesses harmed by these ordinances and laws because the media is on the web and the real life isn't says much about you.

[cinFLA]

Studies say policy doesn't affect restaurant sales

BY JOHN P. MCDERMOTT
Of The Post and Courier Staff
A stack of economic impact studies have reached similar conclusions: Overall, bar and restaurant owners do not see a decline in sales when smoking is banned in their establishments.


WADE SPEES/STAFF
Dave Snyder lights up Monday night in AC's Bar and Grill on King Street in downtown Charleston.

In a 1998 report, for example, researchers examined tax data from certain North Carolina counties that have passed public smoking bans.

"Conclusion: Smoke-free ordinances do not affect restaurant sales, even in the No. 1 tobacco-producing state in the U.S.," according to literature from Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada.

Other studies found the same trend in places ranging from New York City to the state of California to West Lake Hills, Texas.

Such findings have become one of the key arguments by supporters of a new movement who want to ban smoking in public places in the city of Charleston.

"It is good for business," said tobacco industry whistle-blower Jeffrey Wigand, founder of Smoke-Free Kids, who kicked off the effort last month.

In a revival of an effort that failed in 1999, Charleston's latest anti-smoking crusade appears to be off to a strong start. Wigand's organization received a $2 million check last month from a group of trial lawyers, including locally based Ness Motley, to help fund this and other anti-smoking proposals. At the Feb. 24 public forum, speakers were applauded for their efforts, and several attendees asked how to keep the movement going.

A few dissenters at the meeting spoke out against the idea of a ban. But even they allowed that second-hand smoke may be harmful.

About 60 municipalities and three states -- California, Delaware and Florida -- have enacted ordinances that restrict smoking in public places, according to the American Nonsmokers' Rights Foundation.

In California, the ban has been well-received, according to a study by the state Department of Health Services.

The agency said 59 percent of bar customers favored smoking restrictions for bars, casinos and taverns in 1998, the year the law went into effect. By 2000, approval among such patrons had climbed to 73 percent. Meanwhile, sales taxes from California restaurants and bars rose.

A handful of area restaurant owners, including Rick Widman of Circa 1886, already prohibit smokers from lighting up.

"As far I'm concerned, they can go outside," Widman said.

Widman, who also owns several downtown inns, said smokers make up a shrinking minority at his businesses.

"When we opened the King's Courtyard Inn 20 years ago, my guess is that smokers represented 30 percent of our business," he said "They don't represent 2 percent anymore."

When Mondo's Delite opened on Folly Road five years ago, the owners decided to go smoke-free because of space constraints. They have not lifted the restriction, even though their restaurant has been enlarged, said co-owner Josh Montalto.

It has not hurt business, he said.

"People are pretty much used to it, and we can accommodate smokers outside," he said. "More than anything, people really appreciate the policy."

Hospitality Management Group Inc., the owner of Magnolias, Blossom Cafe and Cypress, allows cigarette smoking in its bar areas only, said Tom Parsell, president. "We don't see it as a major issue ... and we really haven't changed our thinking on it much," he said.

Still, he would not be opposed to an overall ban. "We wouldn't have much of a problem with that, and I don't think it would affect our business because we're a restaurant first and a bar second," Parsell said. "If something enhances the food experience, we're more concerned with that. I think we can live with it."

[xrp]

You must have missed this one or you can't read English.

[Beck_isright]

"You've got it all wrong. Soros is xrp's hero."

Prove it.
You advocate the abolishment of the concept of private property.
Soros agrees.

You advocate government management of all business, regardless of the type of enterprise.
Soros agrees.

You advocate that science is to be used as a political tool, to enhance bureaucratic power.
Soros agrees.

It seems to 99% of the posters here that you agree with the neo-coms and Soros than with the Hamiltonians. I would love for you to recite your deep, overwhelming knowledge of the Federalist Papers and recite for all of us, the intent of the founding fathers to impose all aspects of government control over all individuals and business operations. Please, enlighten us all with your NEA education some more.

[cinFLA]

The fact you choose to believe that which is printed in agenda driven media as opposed to the real life experiences of businesses harmed by these ordinances and laws because the media is on the web and the real life isn't says much about you.

Please post the restaurant revenues prior to and since the ban.

[Beck_isright]

It's safe to assume that cin's data is still based upon his numerous visits to the Kountry Kitchen Buffet or whatever hole in the wall he visits. On behalf of the state of Florida, again, I apologize again for Palm Beach County (we can't give it away or sell it to Fidel), the moron's smoking ban on private property, and of course, Palm Beach's favorite resident, cin.

[xrp]

Please post the restaurant revenues prior to and since the ban.

Please answer the question: Do you think that government has the right to tell private business owners how to run their business(es)?

[cinFLA]

The latest evidence comes from Zagat, which provides restaurant and leisure guides for locations around the world and is one of the most respected authorities on the hospitality industry. The just-released 2004 Zagat New York City Restaurant Survey of nearly 30,000 New York restaurant-goers found that 23 percent of respondents said they are eating out more often because of the city’s smoke-free workplace law, which includes restaurants and bars, while only four percent said they are eating out less. Zagat surveyed 29,361 New York City restaurant-goers from May through mid-July, after the smoking ban went into effect at the end of March.


Contrary to pessimistic predictions by opponents of the smoke-free law, Zagat is extremely upbeat about prospects for New York City’s restaurant business. The survey finds that New York restaurant-goers are eating out and spending more than they were two years ago and restaurant openings are far outpacing closings. Zagat’s press release concludes, “The city’s recent smoking ban, far from curbing restaurant traffic, has given it a major lift. Meanwhile, openings are perking up, closings dropping, and service complaints continue to trend downward… What’s not to feel good about?”

[Beck_isright]

Yada, yada, yada....
Fortunately for me, the bar owners I know encourage smoking so your kind would never be welcomed there.

[Beck_isright]

I'll repeat his answer in every other smoking thread:

"yes, government does".

So why are we keeping this thread alive for this neo-com?

[cinFLA]

It seems to 99% of the posters here that you agree with the neo-coms and Soros than with the Hamiltonians. I would love for you to recite your deep, overwhelming knowledge of the Federalist Papers and recite for all of us, the intent of the founding fathers to impose all aspects of government control over all individuals and business operations. Please, enlighten us all with your NEA education some more.

Seems you are confused betweent the Federal powers and the state and local powers. Better try again.

[cinFLA]

So why are we keeping this thread alive for this neo-com?

So I can keep posting facts while y'all just rant and ramble! :-)

[Gabz]

I don't disagree that there is a high rate of failure in the bar/restaurant business. But when a place has been going great for a number of years and has a sudden drop following such a draconian move as a smoking ban, a thinking person will make the connection.

that has become so obvious in various localities around the county where a city has banned smoking, their businesses get hurt, so they seek a county ordinance, and then whe the county has a problem they start seeking statewide - all at the instigation of the antis.

My only knowledge of what is going on in NYC is from the press reports and what I am told by friends and family in and out of the hospitality industry there (I moved from NYC 21 years ago)


I have no idea if PM is planting fictitious stories in NYC or not. It may have happened in 95.

I do know that it is not happening in Delaware, if anything PM had a hand in getting the ban being passed by their absolute refusal of any assistance to the grass roots efforts to fight it. The same goes for the rest of the companies. Do I have documentation to back that information up? No I don't - you are going to have to take my word for it (which you never seem to do) that I spoke with representatives of most of the companies, as did many of the bar and restaurant owners and were basically told we were on our own.

You may be right about no 50% drop in a particular place in NYC - but I know of many places in Delaware where it did occur.

[Beck_isright]

"Seems you are confused betweent the Federal powers and the state and local powers. Better try again."

Your ignorance of history and the writings of our founding fathers is only superceeded by your ignorance period. Why aren't you getting 5 star reviews on Du is the only question I really have. Rational, factual and intelligent debate with a neo-com like you is impossible.

[cinFLA]

yet he doesn't bother to post on any of the Soros related threads that have been hitting FR lately!

LIAR! I've posted on EVERY Soros thread I have seen today!

[Beck_isright]

"So I can keep posting facts socialist rants while y'all just rant and ramble! :-)"

The preceding quote was edited to keep FR, fair and balanced, and accurate.

[Gabz]

How much are YOU paid to say the things you say????

I wish I was paid. In fact now that my daughter has started school, I'm looking for a job.

It's a shame that I have ethics, because I know that if I was willing, I could get a job with Repace's company or many of the other organizations getting millions of $$$$ a year to try to beat down smokers.