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To: PatrickHenry; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; Tribune7; CobaltBlue; cornelis; Right Wing Professor; ...
Arrrrgh! Are you saying that the mind is literally creating reality?

Arrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!! PH!!!!!!!

What I am saying is human thought and belief are more proactive in shaping physical reality than is usually suspected. I didn't say human thought "determined all things."

We can start with an analysis of the demonstrations of "fantasy" in the person of the hypothetical Voodoo believer.

Surely from our point of view that man lives a charmed life. Perhaps -- though not necessarily -- he is ignorant, undercultivated; a person of limited scope, of limited horizons, of limited imagination, of limited power.

Try telling that to the guy who lives and suffers "inside the skin" -- this same guy, but now the enlightened doctors are applying all available medicinal antidotes to the nostrums (and dangers) of "Voodoo enlightenment."

Here's an interesting question: Does our Voodoo-afflicted person recognize such treatments as helpful to him? If not, can they work in his case?

Perhaps the root of suffering in this patient is spiritual, not physical. In that case, our putative sufferer may acknowledge a stark dualism at the foundation of the world, a struggle between Good and Evil -- imagined as a battle fought far above the human "plane." The assumption is man is not a player at such an exalted level of "the cosmic dispute."

But I guess I really do digress. To wrap up, my point was to point to your gratuitous use of the word "fantasy." For the man accursed by a Voodoo chieftan, priest, or whatever the hail they call them: The affliction presenting at the emergency room appears to be quite real, in empirical terms. And also -- especially -- in terms of the afflicted's human suffering....

I feel reasonably confident that my last statement will appear perfectly vaporous to you. So let's get real on this question of to what extent the human mind shapes reality exterior to itself, including physical reality -- all presumably within the known physical laws.

The way a person thinks about his world, and the values he derives from his observations, seemingly has objective, empirical consequences, in the spheres of psychosomatic and psychosocial function.

I think it is entirely possible that a "bad attitude" is generally not a successful "survival strategy."

Surely there is more to the question than that. But that's where I have to leave it, for now.

God bless you, PH.

Thanks so much for writing!

1,093 posted on 11/13/2003 5:22:21 PM PST by betty boop (God used beautiful mathematics in creating the world. -- Paul Dirac)
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To: betty boop
Does our Voodoo-afflicted person recognize such treatments as helpful to him? If not, can they work in his case?

We could chat for months on this topic, and if we did we'd still only scratch the surface. But I want to comment on only one item in your excellent post, the part I copied above.

I had an Army buddy in basic training who was a Christian Scientist. If he had anything that was troubling him, physically, he would read his tracts, and his pains would be gone. One day we were all lined up to get about a dozen immunization shots. He was next to me in line. I asked him why he would submit to these injections if he didn't believe in them. His response was that they had no beneficial effect, but no harmful effect either, so getting the injections was of no consequence. To him.

Still, I always assumed that he was getting the same benefit from those injections that I did. What do you think? Did his attitude render the medicines useless? Or did he benefit from the immunizations regardless of his beliefs?

1,096 posted on 11/13/2003 6:52:46 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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