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To: sobieski
It doesn't matter to him. Didn't you hear? What really matters is the percentage of the population that was killed. We have so many Catholics and others, you could kill 20 million of them and it wouldn't matter.

Hell, the millions upon millions of Catholics and Orthodox (and Jews, for that matter) killed for their faith in the Soviet Union and China still haven't managed to get a footnote in history.

But Pius! Yeah, he's the guy who needs yet another movie/book/thread to condemn him. Not Stalin. Or Mao. Neither of whom Hollywood has seen fit to make a negative film about yet. HMMMMMMM.

Qwinn
95 posted on 11/03/2003 7:11:53 PM PST by Qwinn
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To: Qwinn; donh

"Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.

Albert Einstein
Time Magazine, 12/23/40

**************************************

The charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that in 1944 he was open to the grace of God which led him into the Catholic faith. As his baptismal name, he took the same one Pius had, Eugenio, as his own. Later Israel Eugenio Zolli wrote a book entitled, Why I Became a Catholic.

**************************************

"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all... the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a Christian peace."

The New York Times editorial
12/25/41 (Late Day edition, p. 24)

**************************************

"This Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent... Pope Pius expresses as passionately as any leader on our side the war aims of the struggle for freedom when he says that those who aim at building a new world must fight for free choice of government and religious order. They must refuse that the state should make of individuals a herd of whom the state disposes as if they were lifeless things."

The New York Times editorial
12/25/42 (Late Day edition, p. 16)


100 posted on 11/04/2003 4:56:22 AM PST by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Qwinn; sobieski
It doesn't matter to him. Didn't you hear? What really matters is the percentage of the population that was killed.

No, what really matters to me is what the Voice of Jesus chooses to do, or, in this case, not do--because it is emblematic of the churches ADMITTED role in fostering anti-jewish sentiment for the last 1400 years leading up to the holocaust. Pius XII saved a few jews that the anti-jewish policies of his church inevitably fostered.

Make no bones about this--it is solid part of history, from the massacres of jews by the crusaders, onward. And in 1999, I think it was, the church issued a massive mea culpa called "We Remember" to document it's failure toward the jews. Pius' silence is a part of that failure, and no amount of handwringing at me will change that.

116 posted on 11/05/2003 11:29:31 PM PST by donh (1)
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