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To: donh
It's so sad, the hysterical irrelevancies Pius's defenders manage to dredge up

You dismiss the documentation provided of the Pope being responsible for the saving of hundreds of thousands of lives as irrelevant

You dismiss the universal praise by Jewish leaders around the world as irrelevant

You dismiss the Nazi's own record of hating the man as a great enemy irrelevant

You dismiss the conversion of the Grand Rabbi of Rome as irrelevant

To you, the fact that throughout the war, Pius was universally recognized in the press as being an anti-Hitler beacon, despite the fact that he had no secular authority or military might, and was entirely within truly hostile territory is irrelevant

It seems to me that the only hysterical person on this thread is you

45 posted on 11/03/2003 2:09:51 PM PST by jscd3
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To: jscd3
It's so sad, the hysterical irrelevancies Pius's defenders manage to dredge up

You dismiss the documentation provided of the Pope being responsible for the saving of hundreds of thousands of lives as irrelevant

I'd have to see it before I can dismiss it. There is plenty of documentation of Christians saving jews. The documentation that actually ties any significant portion of that to direct action or commission by Pius don't seem to survive rigorous inspection, despite several scholarly attempts.

You dismiss the universal praise by Jewish leaders around the world as irrelevant

Yes, I dismiss dinner testimonials as irrelevant, when I have primary sources to look at.

You dismiss the Nazi's own record of hating the man as a great enemy irrelevant

That is correct, 10 pounds of hatred and a buck and a half will buy you a cup of coffee at starbucks. They didn't hate him enough to remove him from the the holy see, despite it being in axis territory, did they? Apparently not--I guess this was one of Hitler's cream puff hatings, eh?

You dismiss the conversion of the Grand Rabbi of Rome as irrelevant

Pius the Silent did make a somewhat belated move to save some jews in the vatican's own personal forced ghetto in Rome. I am not as overwhelmed as the Grand Rabbi with the universal implications of this.

To you, the fact that throughout the war, Pius was universally recognized in the press as being an anti-Hitler beacon, despite the fact that he had no secular authority or military might, and was entirely within truly hostile territory is irrelevant

Like I said--the pope is not supposed to be some mincing little machiavellian political machine peeping up only as he dares. This is the lame, lame excuse the newpapers offered for his silence. He's supposed to be the Voice of Jesus. vague-as-to-facts Hosannas from newspapers are worth just about as much as dinner testimonials to historians.

It seems to me that the only hysterical person on this thread is you

Which of the facts I have talked about here do you think are in contention? I will leave a space below for you to list the catholic SS death camp commanders who were excommunicated by Pius the Silent.

47 posted on 11/03/2003 2:29:36 PM PST by donh (1)
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