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To: Bohemund
Whoops. My mistake. I hadn't realized you'd stopped bashing Pius XII and moved on to damning the Catholic Church for not waving its magic wand and getting rid of Hitler in 1935. Sorry.

I never stopped bashing PIUS XII, which is a proper subset of damning the Churches anti-jewish history leading up to, and in no small measure responsible for, the holocaust.

waving its magic wand and getting rid of Hitler in 1935. Sorry.

Right. Having signed a Concordat to refrain from attempting to do so, in return for, amongst other things, financial support for the church, several years earlier.

Now that we've established that "making happy kissy-face" by being photographed with Hitler pre-Holocaust

It is unclear when the holocaust started. No one's claim that any particular landmark in time is the start is anything but wind. So, in your opinion, If I look, I won't be able to find pictures of catholic clergy toadying up to Hitler during the Wanasee conference? After Kristalnacht? Is it also your opinion that any act to encourage Hitler's programs directly before the holocaust have no bearing on the question?

is unforgivable, why stop at the Catholic Church? Let's make a list of diplomats and heads of state to bash. Then we'll ask the Catholic Church if we can borrow its magic time machine to rub out those evil people who once met Hitler.

Because "diplomats and heads of state" are not the Shepards of God's kindom on earth, and the self-appointed spokesmen for God's moral word. Would you be in favor of letting a serial killer go if he argued that there are other serial killers out there?

333 posted on 11/10/2003 10:39:33 AM PST by donh
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To: donh
<>iI never stopped bashing PIUS XII, which is a proper subset of damning the Churches anti-jewish history leading up to, and in no small measure responsible for, the holocaust.

In the interests of consistency, then, you also condemn all Protestant, Mormon, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist leaders who did not condemn Hitler from "Mein Kampf" on, right?

Right. Having signed a Concordat to refrain from attempting to [get rid of Hitler], in return for, amongst other things, financial support for the church, several years earlier.

You mean the 1933 agreement under which the Vatican got out of politics in Germany in exchange for the right for the Church to operate at all in Germany?

It is unclear when the holocaust started. No one's claim that any particular landmark in time is the start is anything but wind. So, in your opinion, If I look, I won't be able to find pictures of catholic clergy toadying up to Hitler during the Wanasee conference? After Kristalnacht? Is it also your opinion that any act to encourage Hitler's programs directly before the holocaust have no bearing on the question?

I'm sure you could find pictures of individual members of the Catholic clergy doing all sorts of terrible things on a lot of occasions. This does not mean the Pius XII is responsible for the Holocaust.

Because "diplomats and heads of state" are not the Shepards of God's kindom on earth, and the self-appointed spokesmen for God's moral word. Would you be in favor of letting a serial killer go if he argued that there are other serial killers out there?

So any Catholic official who met with Hitler at any time is the moral equivalent of a serial killer? Please.

Your anti-Catholic agenda is as sad as it is obvious. In the face of Naziism, all sorts of people and organizations chose to cooperate rather than be destroyed, before and after the Holocaust. But when presented with evidence that Pius XII and the Catholic Church saved hundreds of thousands of Jews, all you can say is that they did not do enough. When presented with evidence that the Nazi's were themselves anti-Catholic, you say that Catholics "contributed" to anti-Semitism.

Hindsight is 20/20. One of the few leaders in the 1930's who saw the threat of Hitler was Pius XII, both before and after he became pope. That he helped save so many of those who were not even in his flock is worthy of admiration, not condemnation.

I've had enough of your hate and bigotry. I will pray for you.

346 posted on 11/10/2003 12:44:20 PM PST by Bohemund
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