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To: donh
> > We have also demonstrated that you mischaracterize evidence.

> you'd fall on your face trying to demonstrate this

This is amply demonstrated in your original response to my original post, and described in my rejoinder.

> > Now, moving forward, do you acknowledge that Pius XII used his papal authority to save a large number of Jews?

> Sure.

Wow. Further progress still.
So far, you acknowledge that Pius XII helped the Jews.
You also acknowledge that Pius XII used his papal authority for this end.

As such, do you now acknowledge that the Catholic Church acted in concert to save the Jews during the Holocaust?

> make your point if you have one

Baby steps, donh, baby steps.
268 posted on 11/07/2003 7:15:58 PM PST by polemikos (There are none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: polemikos
Baby steps, donh, baby steps.

BS polemikos, BS. Because you haven't the apparent capacity or willingness to stand up the the charges and debate in open court, you hope that cherry-picking my arguments and acting like an condescending schoolmarm will give you an out. Put up or bug off. Did or did not PIUS XII engineer the accords between the Holy See and Hitler which was an explicit promise to shut the hell up--all by itself making PIUS the Silent an appropriate sobriquiet whether it was the best strategy for saving jews (which I doubt) or not? Did or did not PIUS excommunicate participants in the "FINAL SOLUTION"? Did or did not the Pope tell church officials such as the prelates of Slovokia, Father Coghlin in the US, and the priests attending the German army to stand down? How hard can this question be? Whether you think it was a good plan or not--he was plainly silent on some very big issues.

276 posted on 11/08/2003 2:50:07 PM PST by donh
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To: polemikos
As such, do you now acknowledge that the Catholic Church acted in concert to save the Jews during the Holocaust?

Are you paying no attention at all? Of course it did not. Much of catholic germany was anti-semitic and anti-jewish to the bone, including participants in the Jewish solution, including high ranking clergy in Slovokia. The church supplied the SS with her marriage and birth documents to help ferret out jews, unless they were jews who'd converted, in which case the church kindly refrained. As I have cited, for those who actually engage in arguments by absorbing what their deponents say.

It is, in fact, as thoughoughly documented in the first and second of my long list of cites, absurd to think that a country that was 90% avowed christians could have foully, pornographically, murdered 6 million of their brethern who were jews, in their midst, unless the "jewish solution" just didn't seem so extraordinary a response to the "jewish problem".

277 posted on 11/08/2003 2:57:50 PM PST by donh
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