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To: donh
--I've got it: a couple of dozen quotes from Hitler's speeches in which a affirms the nazi intention to carry out the agenda of the Catholic church. Dozens of private quotes in which he contrasts his own catholicism with lutheranism, & various other similar remarks.

So, since Bill Clinton talked about being a Christian, carried a Bible and quoted from it, was born one, was seen singing in the choir, and went to church every Sunday, does that mean he was a Christian? Even though he didn't lead a "Christian life"?

Face it, even IF your quotes exist (links to them would be a nice change), tyrants have misused religion for political purposes for millennia.

And since you have, shall we say, "moved away" from your "Pius the Silent" slur, can we now take it that you admit the numbers posted (around 800,000) are true?

266 posted on 11/07/2003 4:07:33 PM PST by TomB
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To: TomB
So, since Bill Clinton talked about being a Christian, carried a Bible and quoted from it, was born one, was seen singing in the choir, and went to church every Sunday, does that mean he was a Christian? Even though he didn't lead a "Christian life"?

Do you have some evidence that Bill Clinton wasn't, or isn't a christian? Do you drum every parisoner in your church out when they behave sinfully?

Am I to take it that your adverse opinion of a christian's behavior is the criteria for tossing them out of the church? Not exactly a detailed science, is it?

And since you have, shall we say, "moved away" from your "Pius the Silent" slur,

It is not a slur--it is an promenent historical fact that he engineered an agreement in the Accords to shut up. It might have been a clever way to save more jews--but you can't prove that, and I doubt it--but it most definitely wasn't a loud way to help the jews. A principled public stand, with the full formal weight of the church behind it, from the earliest moment, in a Germany chock full of practicing catholics, including catholic soldiers, doesn't sound so stupid to me.

can we now take it that you admit the numbers posted (around 800,000) are true?

Some scholars have reservations about exactly how many of those can be directly laid at PIUS's feet. It is pretty easy to give PIUS credit for most anything any catholic ever did for a jew. And the effort for his canonization has muddied the waters about this. But, sure, I'll give the point to you. 800,000 out of 6,000,000. All of whom perished, or survived, with the aid of catholic stealth.

PIUS was a good man who saved many jewish lives. I have assented to this so frequently on this thread my fingers are growing numb from it. That, however, is not the end of the story, despite my deponents' fervent desire that it be so.

285 posted on 11/08/2003 4:15:53 PM PST by donh
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