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To: IrishCatholic
Hitler may have been born a Catholic, he may have been babtized a Catholic, but he was not Catholic. Part of the tenant of the church is that your actions are intertwined with your intent.

I see. And is it your opinion that Hitler might, or might not, have been forgiven his sins upon confession and contrition through the doctrine of salvation through acknowledgement of christ as savior by virtue of the crucifixion and ressurection.

In one of your earliest posts you stated you were born a catholic. Does that make you one now?

That's what it says in my hospital records at St. Vincent De Paul hospital, on my discharge papers, and on my baptismal certificate. And I have never formally repudiated the church by, say, writing a letter to my priest asking to be removed from the roles, or excommunicated for cause, as sometimes occurs. Why don't you see what your priest has to say about this?

I'm curious what you and the other posters here think you will gain, if you gain this point? If Hitler was not a christian, than that demonstrates that he knew he had to appeal to a christian audience by spouting christian rhetoric. If you win this battle, you lose the war. Curious.

238 posted on 11/07/2003 1:39:20 PM PST by donh (1)
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To: donh
Is it my opinion that Hitler would have been forgiven upon confession and contrition through the doctrine of salvation? Yes. You are familiar with the salvation concept. What part of that do you not understand?
As for you being a Catholic, the point was to show everyone that you have as much in common with being a practicing Catholic as Hitler did. It's not a point of being born or babtized a Catholic. It is a point of how you live your life and practice your faith. Hitler wasn't Catholic-you are not Catholic, regardless of what is on paper or on church roles. It's not a matter of a label but a state of being. Being Catholic means beleiving in Christ and trying to live the way he expected us to live. All will fall short and are redeemed by his sacrifice. But you still have to make the effort in faith.
I noticed evertime someone spoke for Pius or the Church you dismissed these as "after dinner testimonials" rather than heartfilled testimonies. Why? Why are they not statements of fact and belief and gratitude by people who lived through the horror?
Also, from posts 264 "...the nazi intention to carry out the agenda of the Catholic Church" tells me that National Socialism was merely the secular effort by the Church to liquidate the Jews of Europe.
Or,
Post228 "I do not hate Catholics per se. Several of my family are practicing Catholics"
These two posts tell me that you do hate Catholics and the Church very much. The church did much to save the Jews as you have acknowledged. The Pope did much to save the Jews as you have acknowledged. The Church today as part of the Jubilee year made an effort to apologise for any and all actions it ever failed in to live up to the standards it should have. Could it have done more or differently? The lense of hindsight is often used by bigots. The Church today is one of the primary efforts of charity in the world. The message of Christ from the Church he founded is undiminished after 2,000 years. The church is still a light to those in darkness. Why don't you pick up a catechism and a Bible and look again. Let go of the hatred. God's love and mercy are infinate. That is why Hitler could have been forgiven. It's also how you can heal yourself from your bitterness.
273 posted on 11/07/2003 11:55:54 PM PST by IrishCatholic
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