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Fifteen die as US helicopter downed
BBC ^

Posted on 11/02/2003 11:24:41 AM PST by Lessismore

Fifteen American soldiers have been killed and 21 wounded in an attack on a US military helicopter in Iraq, the US military has confirmed.

It is the highest number of casualties suffered by the US-led coalition in a single incident since Saddam Hussein was toppled in April.

The helicopter came down in a cornfield near the flashpoint town of Falluja, 50 kilometres (32 miles) west of the capital.

Iraqi witnesses said it was hit by one of two surface-to-air missiles fired at it, but the US military has not confirmed the cause.

One military spokesman said the helicopter was hit by an "unknown weapon", but later, the military said it might have crashed while taking evasive action.

"We are aware of eyewitnesses seeing what they presumed to be missile trails," US army Colonel William Darley told reporters.

'Tragic day'

The helicopter was one of two twin-rotor Chinooks flying nearly 60 personnel from a US military base to Baghdad International Airport, from where they were due to fly abroad for rest and recreation.

Sunday marked the start of an expanded leave programme for US personnel - many of whom have been in the region for more than a year.

The helicopter was almost totally destroyed in the incident, which happened at about 0900 (0600 GMT). Television pictures showed US personnel recovering the dead and wounded from smoking debris.

Responding to the news, US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the US would continue its war on global terror and efforts to stabilise Iraq.

"Clearly it is a tragic day for Americans," Mr Rumsfeld told ABC television.

"In a long hard war we are going to have tragic days."

Some Iraqis in Falluja expressed delight at Sunday's attack.

"The Americans are pigs. We will hold a celebration because this helicopter went down - a big celebration," an Iraqi farmer near the crash site told Reuters news agency.

The downing of the helicopter was one of a number of attacks on US forces in Iraq on Sunday.

One American soldier died when his convoy was attacked in the early hours in Baghdad, while unconfirmed reports say up to four troops were killed in an attack on a convoy in Falluja.

Falluja lies within the so-called "Sunni triangle" of central Iraq - a largely Sunni Muslim area where resistance to the US-led coalition's occupation has been intense.

US military officials have repeatedly warned that hundreds of surface-to-air missiles remain unaccounted for in Iraq.

The Chinook, which has a crew of four, is a heavy-lift helicopter used primarily for moving troops and transporting artillery.

Intensified attacks

A total of 138 American troops have now been killed in attacks since US President George W Bush declared major combat operations over on 1 May - more than died in the war itself.

Attacks on coalition troops have intensified in the past week, reaching an average of more than 30 a day.

The BBC's Jill McGivering in Baghdad says the planning and execution of some recent attacks has led to speculation the militants opposed to the coalition have now formed into a more cohesive, better organised force.

There had been rumours that this weekend would see co-ordinated attacks on coalition targets.

A senior British member of the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, told the BBC that the people carrying out the attacks were a "nasty mix".

He said they were supporters of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, "imported terrorists", and criminals released from jail by the former regime before it fell.

Sunday's incidents follow an announcement by the chief US administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer, that he wants to accelerate the handover of authority to Iraqis.

MAJOR POST-WAR ATTACKS

27 Oct: 36 killed in co-ordinated suicide attacks on Red Cross HQ and police stations in Baghdad

29 Aug: Shia Muslim cleric Ayatollah Mohammed Baqr al-Hakim among 80 killed in bombing in Najaf

19 Aug: UN special representative among 22 killed in attack on UN HQ in Baghdad


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: fallen; iraq
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To: Lessismore
These sons of bitches need some killing...right now.

They slither around and get lucky occasionally, but it's time for total and unconditional brute force and bringing the Wrath of God to these animals to stop this crap once an for all.

DO IT!!!

21 posted on 11/02/2003 12:35:04 PM PST by New Horizon
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To: aimhigh
Why aren't our helicopters equiped with anti-missile technology? When I read about more Americans dying, I am reminded of a passage that speaks of not casting our pearls before swine, lest they overrun you. The Muslims are the swine. They will hate us no matter what we do.

Regarding pearls~ it's not like we're going over there evangelizing the unsaved. We're taking bullets and trying to get as many bad guys as possible.

We either have a spy traitor in the midst of those in Fallujah or this was just a bad call in taking soldiers headed for R n R on this huge, slowing moving helicopter.

22 posted on 11/02/2003 12:35:26 PM PST by swheats
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To: pierrem15
Very well said.
23 posted on 11/02/2003 12:36:06 PM PST by New Horizon
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To: Michael81Dus
There are some things about Rumsfeld I don't like, mainly that I think he appears (in the press) as sometimes cold towards the hardships of the troops and their families, although he seems to be quite different when he meets with them in person, as he does in his "town hall" type meetings (which I don't remember any other sec def doing).

The one dirty secret about the military transformation he's working on that I haven't seen anyone address is the fact that a leaner, fitter and more mobile figgting force will be much harder on the troops-- they will be in the field and fighting much more often. It seems to me that if that is the way we want to go, then we need to cut down on the number of married enlisted men and NCO's (and we will, whether we want to or not, under such a policy) as well as shifting many Reserve and National Guard functions back to active duty.

But I ain't sec def, and IMHO, the one we've got is doing a pretty good job with a military that was under equipped and under trained for 10 years.

24 posted on 11/02/2003 12:39:52 PM PST by pierrem15
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To: swheats
These poor guys were on a retreat...that's what pisses me off more than anything else.

They're going home in body-bags now. I'm guessing that this was a bad call...every time we "relax" a little, these MFs take us out.

25 posted on 11/02/2003 12:41:51 PM PST by New Horizon
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To: pierrem15
ROFL, if you call the US military under-equipped and under-trained for 10 years, then you haven´t seen the German (or even European) forces.

I ´m telling you no secrets when I say that the state today is inacceptable for Europeans biggest nation. So, don´t complain, the US military is the best in the world (at least best-equipped and best-paid ;-).

26 posted on 11/02/2003 12:43:22 PM PST by Michael81Dus (German, and proud of it.)
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To: RightWhale
we did that in Vietnam

Some of it worked, like the much derided Phoenix program. I wonder if we aren't doing the same thing via the issuing of new Id's near Tikrit-- give our troops and the Iraqi police those UPS type devices and feed movements into a big honking database and let the AI software look for correlations between movements of certain individuals and attacks.

27 posted on 11/02/2003 12:43:38 PM PST by pierrem15
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To: Michael81Dus
I'm not complaining about our forces-- I think, in fact, that they have done an absolutely superb job in every sense. I have never seen or read about such a large and powerrful force that acted in an "envelopment" attack and showed such discipline and courage under fire.

A more recent example: when that Blackhawk was shot down near Tikrit or Mosul with only 1 wounded, everyone evacuated under fire, and the attackers caught, it's simply amazing soldiering (and typical) of the training and discipline of our troops.

But that doesn't change the fact that they are shortchanged on ceramic inserts for the vests or treads for Bradleys, etc., etc. And I am sure these are only the tip of the iceberg in the procurement deficit as Clinton's ultimate "gift" to the area of national security.

28 posted on 11/02/2003 12:50:20 PM PST by pierrem15
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To: pierrem15; madfly; txflake; mhking; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; JohnHuang2; Mudboy Slim; ...
He and Rumsfeld will do what they think is right, regardless of the bs in the press. And if we don't like it, we can vote Bush out of office, which is obviously what the press is working to achieve every day. If that means abandoning another country to despotism and making sure evety American killed their died in vain and aiding terrorists, they and the dems are more than happy to oblige

BINGO !!

29 posted on 11/02/2003 12:51:13 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (The difference between Los Angeles and yogurt is that yogurt comes with less fruit. -Rush Limbaugh)
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To: pierrem15
If there is a technological solution, even embedding chips in their miserable skins, it ought to be well underway. If this war isn't being pushed hard everywhere all the time then some of the troops and some of the Admin ought to be rotated out. $87 billion ought to pay for a lot of tech, maybe enough tech to end this business of creating a new country inside the borders of the old Iraq.
30 posted on 11/02/2003 12:51:52 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: New Horizon
Lets pray that this tradegy was not in vain. That their lives bring about the changes needed to save more lives.
31 posted on 11/02/2003 12:56:59 PM PST by swheats
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To: Michael81Dus
Sorry, another reply:

I was really hoping we'd get more military cooperation from Germany, than if for no other reason than seeing some German armor in desert camo with a desert palm and the Maltese cross on it ;-).

32 posted on 11/02/2003 12:58:42 PM PST by pierrem15
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To: New Horizon
We're taking out far more enemies daily.
33 posted on 11/02/2003 1:01:19 PM PST by Ragtime Cowgirl (Can we really debate the wisdom of removing Saddam Hussein from power.. liberating Iraq?~Conde,10/31)
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To: RightWhale
I agree about the tech and the hard work needed to apply some creative solutions.

Also: most of the $87 billion (about $60 billion, I think) is earmarked for our military.

Does anyone know if that is in addition to or in lieu of the existing DOD appropriations? If it's in addition to, then we'll be spending almost $500 billion on defense next year.

34 posted on 11/02/2003 1:02:09 PM PST by pierrem15
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To: pierrem15
Hehe, yeah, but even if our politicians wanted (which is not the case today), we aren´t capable and equipped to send troops in the desert. Afghanistan, yeah, that´s a region we still can handle with, but Iraq? No way today. But we´re reforming our troops, and change the former cold war army into a rapid response and peace-keeping army.
I´m also sorry that there´s not more support from us, but today, we have more important problems than Iraq. If we don´t take care, our society and economy are going down.
Though, vocal support is the minimum required.

35 posted on 11/02/2003 1:06:37 PM PST by Michael81Dus
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To: swheats
Lets pray that this tradegy was not in vain. That their lives bring about the changes needed to save more lives.

Agreed, but I wonder how many of them had children that will not see them again. Wives that will not see them again.

I get so pissed off that I can't see straight. If we have to totally destroy these terrorists assholes, then do it, already

The time for political correctness is over. Every dead American soldier is just another victory for these animals in Iraq, and for most libs here in our own country.

36 posted on 11/02/2003 1:13:42 PM PST by New Horizon
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To: aimhigh
"Why aren't our helicopters equiped with anti-missile technology?"

There are a million rockets in Iraq. The answer is not shooting each one down. Never mind the fact that it is impossible.
37 posted on 11/02/2003 1:13:53 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals (Screw 'the security' plan in Iraq. It's time to 'go Saddam' on their medieval asses...)
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"When the network news play the tape tonight of the Iraqis dancing in the streets"

Yeah, like no thinking person will see this as the propaganda that it is. ANSWR and the Dims will be dancing behind closed doors too.

What great issue does a few rebellious young men posing in front for a camera for the sole purpose of getting on TV and getting rowdy advance?

When Arabs burn the US flag for TV shows, does this convey significance?

A few Iraqis clowning for TV does not mean SH** during a war.
38 posted on 11/02/2003 1:18:07 PM PST by At _War_With_Liberals (Screw 'the security' plan in Iraq. It's time to 'go Saddam' on their medieval asses...)
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To: Lessismore

39 posted on 11/02/2003 1:19:51 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (THANK YOU TROOPS, PAST and PRESENT)
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To: New Horizon
Time for this sh#t to end.

This PC crap is binding our military like nothing else. It's obvious we haven't killed enough of these f-ing terrorists. Our strategy has got to change. We are commited now, and there's no turning back. Like a commentator on FOX News said about 2 months ago...
"We HAVE to go into their neighborhood (the middle east) and beat the daylights out of them...or we'll be facing more terrorism in the future."
40 posted on 11/02/2003 1:21:41 PM PST by Levante
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