Fifteen die as US helicopter downed

BBC ^

[New Horizon]

These sons of bitches need some killing...right now.

They slither around and get lucky occasionally, but it's time for total and unconditional brute force and bringing the Wrath of God to these animals to stop this crap once an for all.

DO IT!!!

[swheats]

Why aren't our helicopters equiped with anti-missile technology? When I read about more Americans dying, I am reminded of a passage that speaks of not casting our pearls before swine, lest they overrun you. The Muslims are the swine. They will hate us no matter what we do.

Regarding pearls~ it's not like we're going over there evangelizing the unsaved. We're taking bullets and trying to get as many bad guys as possible.

We either have a spy traitor in the midst of those in Fallujah or this was just a bad call in taking soldiers headed for R n R on this huge, slowing moving helicopter.

[New Horizon]

Very well said.

[pierrem15]

There are some things about Rumsfeld I don't like, mainly that I think he appears (in the press) as sometimes cold towards the hardships of the troops and their families, although he seems to be quite different when he meets with them in person, as he does in his "town hall" type meetings (which I don't remember any other sec def doing).

The one dirty secret about the military transformation he's working on that I haven't seen anyone address is the fact that a leaner, fitter and more mobile figgting force will be much harder on the troops-- they will be in the field and fighting much more often. It seems to me that if that is the way we want to go, then we need to cut down on the number of married enlisted men and NCO's (and we will, whether we want to or not, under such a policy) as well as shifting many Reserve and National Guard functions back to active duty.

But I ain't sec def, and IMHO, the one we've got is doing a pretty good job with a military that was under equipped and under trained for 10 years.

[New Horizon]

These poor guys were on a retreat...that's what pisses me off more than anything else.

They're going home in body-bags now. I'm guessing that this was a bad call...every time we "relax" a little, these MFs take us out.

[Michael81Dus]

ROFL, if you call the US military under-equipped and under-trained for 10 years, then you haven´t seen the German (or even European) forces.

I ´m telling you no secrets when I say that the state today is inacceptable for Europeans biggest nation. So, don´t complain, the US military is the best in the world (at least best-equipped and best-paid ;-).

[pierrem15]

we did that in Vietnam

Some of it worked, like the much derided Phoenix program. I wonder if we aren't doing the same thing via the issuing of new Id's near Tikrit-- give our troops and the Iraqi police those UPS type devices and feed movements into a big honking database and let the AI software look for correlations between movements of certain individuals and attacks.

[pierrem15]

I'm not complaining about our forces-- I think, in fact, that they have done an absolutely superb job in every sense. I have never seen or read about such a large and powerrful force that acted in an "envelopment" attack and showed such discipline and courage under fire.

A more recent example: when that Blackhawk was shot down near Tikrit or Mosul with only 1 wounded, everyone evacuated under fire, and the attackers caught, it's simply amazing soldiering (and typical) of the training and discipline of our troops.

But that doesn't change the fact that they are shortchanged on ceramic inserts for the vests or treads for Bradleys, etc., etc. And I am sure these are only the tip of the iceberg in the procurement deficit as Clinton's ultimate "gift" to the area of national security.

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

He and Rumsfeld will do what they think is right, regardless of the bs in the press. And if we don't like it, we can vote Bush out of office, which is obviously what the press is working to achieve every day. If that means abandoning another country to despotism and making sure evety American killed their died in vain and aiding terrorists, they and the dems are more than happy to oblige

BINGO !!

[RightWhale]

If there is a technological solution, even embedding chips in their miserable skins, it ought to be well underway. If this war isn't being pushed hard everywhere all the time then some of the troops and some of the Admin ought to be rotated out. $87 billion ought to pay for a lot of tech, maybe enough tech to end this business of creating a new country inside the borders of the old Iraq.

[swheats]

Lets pray that this tradegy was not in vain. That their lives bring about the changes needed to save more lives.

[pierrem15]

Sorry, another reply:

I was really hoping we'd get more military cooperation from Germany, than if for no other reason than seeing some German armor in desert camo with a desert palm and the Maltese cross on it ;-).

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

We're taking out far more enemies daily.

[pierrem15]

I agree about the tech and the hard work needed to apply some creative solutions.

Also: most of the $87 billion (about $60 billion, I think) is earmarked for our military.

Does anyone know if that is in addition to or in lieu of the existing DOD appropriations? If it's in addition to, then we'll be spending almost $500 billion on defense next year.

[Michael81Dus]

Hehe, yeah, but even if our politicians wanted (which is not the case today), we aren´t capable and equipped to send troops in the desert. Afghanistan, yeah, that´s a region we still can handle with, but Iraq? No way today. But we´re reforming our troops, and change the former cold war army into a rapid response and peace-keeping army.
I´m also sorry that there´s not more support from us, but today, we have more important problems than Iraq. If we don´t take care, our society and economy are going down.
Though, vocal support is the minimum required.

[New Horizon]

Lets pray that this tradegy was not in vain. That their lives bring about the changes needed to save more lives.

Agreed, but I wonder how many of them had children that will not see them again. Wives that will not see them again.

I get so pissed off that I can't see straight. If we have to totally destroy these terrorists assholes, then do it, already

The time for political correctness is over. Every dead American soldier is just another victory for these animals in Iraq, and for most libs here in our own country.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"Why aren't our helicopters equiped with anti-missile technology?"

There are a million rockets in Iraq. The answer is not shooting each one down. Never mind the fact that it is impossible.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"When the network news play the tape tonight of the Iraqis dancing in the streets"

Yeah, like no thinking person will see this as the propaganda that it is. ANSWR and the Dims will be dancing behind closed doors too.

What great issue does a few rebellious young men posing in front for a camera for the sole purpose of getting on TV and getting rowdy advance?

When Arabs burn the US flag for TV shows, does this convey significance?

A few Iraqis clowning for TV does not mean SH** during a war.

[68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub]

[Levante]

Time for this sh#t to end.

This PC crap is binding our military like nothing else. It's obvious we haven't killed enough of these f-ing terrorists. Our strategy has got to change. We are commited now, and there's no turning back. Like a commentator on FOX News said about 2 months ago...
"We HAVE to go into their neighborhood (the middle east) and beat the daylights out of them...or we'll be facing more terrorism in the future."