Florida: Complaints over restaurants not complying with smoking ban

First Coast News ^

[Leisler]

I blame it all on the illegalization of dueling. Put up, shut up or apologize. Naturally sleazy types were getting wacked pretty hard with dueling, so they took that away and ever since have been snapping their fingers and running off at the mouth with impunity.

I'd like to see it brought back. The wrong kind of people would walk and talk more carefully( those that would still be around after the first year or so.)

[kegler4]

"You don't see the difference between food stored and prepared in a kitchen where the consumer is not allowed and customers knowingly entering a bar where smoking is allowed?

You are engaging in sophistry, madame."

That would be "sir" to you.

As I pointed out in more than one post I was NOT comparing anything to anything. I was merely pointing out what I consider the folly of having NO regulations on restaurants. So in fact there was nothing subtly deceptive about my argument. I wasn't even commenting on the cigarette issue in that post.

[kegler4]

It is indeed impossible to prove a negative and I'm aware of that, but it's also impossible to say with certainty that NO waiter has ever been killed by second-hand smoke. Has the poster examined every waiter who has ever died?

The statement was completely ridiculous.

[RightFighter]

I will stay at home, order in and have friends over.

So the net effect on businesses in your area is zero. You may not frequent the restaurants after the ban takes effect, but your grocer will appreciate the extra business.

[SheLion]

So the net effect on businesses in your area is zero. You may not frequent the restaurants after the ban takes effect, but your grocer will appreciate the extra business.

When Maine forced the restaurants to go smoke free in 1999, we didn't go back. We found bars/taverns that sell food and beverages and had smoking sections.

Now, in January, with the total ban coming for the bars/taverns in Maine, my very favorite Tavern in all the world, The Par and Grill will be gone from me as well.

It used to be Pat's Pizza. When they were forced to go smoke free, it was within one year, they were real close to closing their doors.

The owner then bought a very expensive liquor license in order to open it up to smoking again. The business was saved. Pat's Pizza was bought out by new owners, remodeled, big smoke eaters installed, glass enclosed non-smoking section........and they will be forced to go smoke free again. But you can bet your boots that Maine will never reimburse the Par and Grill for the big smoke eaters and all the renovation they did to accompany everyone.

[CSM]

"So the net effect on businesses in your area is zero. You may not frequent the restaurants after the ban takes effect, but your grocer will appreciate the extra business."

Given the margins in the grocery business are very small (2-3%) vs. a much larger margin in the restaurant and bar business (25% food and 100-150% drink), add to that the margin of a standard 15-20% for labor alone, your statement above could not be further from the truth. The net effect on overall business in that area has to have been affected by large percentages. The funny thing is that everyone's taxes have to go up to make up for the revenue shortfall generated by the smaller exchanges of money.

And the circle continues!

[Gabz]

When Maine forced the restaurants to go smoke free in 1999, we didn't go back.

I know what you mean.

Before we moved there were a few non-smoking, by the owner's choice, restaurants that we occassionaly patronized. but when the whiners in the legislature forced every place to go that way we didn't even bother with them any more.

The grocers and local liquor stores may have seen an increase in business, but not enough to offset the losses from the bars and restaurants in terms of employing the bar and wait staffs that have lost their jobs. and are now unable to continue contributing at the same level to the local economy.

[RightFighter]

So in a free society the voters of Florida can't pass a constitutional amendment?

One question for you and one statement for you.

What percentage of Floridians voted, either for or against, on this amendment?

I know what the percentage was and the rest of Florida got exactly what they deserve for not going to the polls, socialism at it's best/worst.

Are you saying that you think this amendment passed because turnout wasn't high enough? Give me a break! It passed by an overwhelming margin. (71% for vs. 29% opposed). It passed by over 2,000,000 votes (3,501,161 for vs. 1,431,966 against). 55.3% of the voters showed up to vote that day, so unless you think that the other 44.7% would have gone 50/50 instead of closer to the 71/29 result of the rest of the electorate, then the amendment still passes even if 100% of the electorate votes that day.

[RightFighter]

In a Constitutional Republic, which we purportedly still are, the rights of the minority cannot be voted away by the majority.

Actually, that's not a true statement unless it is qualified, like this:

"In a Constitutional Republic, which we purportedly still are, the rights of the minority cannot be voted away by the majority, UNLESS it's a big enough majority."

[kegler4]

I truly don't understand this and I'm a former smoker who quit because I wanted to.

Are you all saying that if restaurants are all forced to ban smoking you will never go back to a restaurant because of that? I think that smoking should be the choice of the business owner, but I can't understand not going to restaurants at all. Aren't you the ones who are actually punishing the innocent employees? Aren't you depriving yourself of some great food? Can't you live for an hour or so without a cigarette?

Do you refuse to go to the home of a friend who doesn't allow smoking inside?

[Just another Joe]

Like I said, "I know what the percentage was and the rest of Florida got exactly what they deserve for not going to the polls, socialism at it's best/worst."

[SheLion]

Are you all saying that if restaurants are all forced to ban smoking you will never go back to a restaurant because of that? I think that smoking should be the choice of the business owner, but I can't understand not going to restaurants at all. Aren't you the ones who are actually punishing the innocent employees? Aren't you depriving yourself of some great food? Can't you live for an hour or so without a cigarette? 

When Maine "forced" the restaurants to go smoke free, no, we never went back.  We ordered take-out.  Listen, I am sorry that the business has to suffer.  I am sorry they have to lay off the wait staff, and I am sorry that the wait staff are no longer getting our tips.

However, most places of business are smoke free.  I can understand this.  However, when it's for my recreation and my money, no, I will not go spend my money where I cannot be accepted as I have been for so many years.

And also, the business's think it won't happen to them.  Then, they are stuck sitting on their thumbs when the ban goes through.  The restaurant owners didn't think it would happen to them.  Many of them today are now closed. They do not stand up and fight.

There are plenty of places I have to go in this life where I can't smoke and that is fine.  And yes! I CAN go an hour with out a cigarette.  But why would I put myself through that?  Coffee and cigarettes are me!

Do you refuse to go to the home of a friend who doesn't allow smoking inside?

In the area where I live, most of my friends smoke.  And those that do not smoke could care less if someone smokes or not.  It's pretty laid back.  But, if I go to a home of a non-smoker, I do not smoke.  However, it's much easier to hang with friends who do smoke.  I am more comfortable with my friends who smoke.

Smoking SHOULD be the choice of the business owner.  That is what we are all trying to get through everyone's heads.  This should not be left up to the state and the lawmakers.  Smoking and tobacco are a hot bed of politics.  If the states and the lawmakers are so powerful to take away this right, what and whose right will they be going after next?  Think about it.

The Tobacco Settlement Money going into each state is being paid for BY the smokers who pay taxes on cigarettes.  Not Big Tobacco and NOT the Government.  The SMOKERS.  Smokers pay more then their fare share of everything.  Including health care.

[Mears]

Leisler----Very funny post but I don't know many "trailer trash" folks that would use the expression"suppress the conflagration".

We will be going non-smoking here in Mass now,thanks to that slimebag,Tom Finneran and the rest of the crooks on Beacon Hill.

[CSM]

But, don't you understand that it is your responsibility to ensure a good living to these poor waiters and waitresses? Don't you get it that you are obligated to continue going places that don't meet your needs because we have said your behavior is objectionable and we want it changed? Don't you understand that just becuase we were able to force our will upon all private business owners, doesn't mean that we need to go to these places, we just wanted it that way just in case we wanted to someday go to these places? Just because your needs are no longer met doesn't mean you can blow off your responisibities and no longer give money to these people!

(gnatzie rant written with their true intention!)

[SheLion]

But, don't you understand that it is your responsibility to ensure a good living to these poor waiters and waitresses? Don't you get it that you are obligated to continue going places that don't meet your needs because we have said your behavior is objectionable and we want it changed? Don't you understand that just becuase we were able to force our will upon all private business owners, doesn't mean that we need to go to these places, we just wanted it that way just in case we wanted to someday go to these places? Just because your needs are no longer met doesn't mean you can blow off your responisibities and no longer give money to these people!

Let the likes of MINNIE support them now. My money is just as tight as anyone else's. I spend my money on my own comfort. If that means someone not getting my revenue for a meal and my tips, well, so be it. They didn't stand up to keep MY business. So why should I continue to feed my money into theirs. Nope. Can't do it, CSM.

[Mears]

I go out to lunch or dinner several times a week with non-smoking friends and I don't smoke.No problem.

Since I retired I go out to breakfast alone every day and read my newspaper. I will no longer do this when the Massachusetts ban takes effect.

My breakfast place will not go out of business without me but I'm a big tipper and the waitress will notice the difference.

[CSM]

But those socialists that support the regulation of the market will tell you it is your responsibility. Considering every gnatzie thinks they are smarter than every smoker, they must be right!

Of course I agree with you. In fact, I will make a choice to not go to a non smoking state or city. Normally, that choice meets my demands and the market works. The non smoking bars around here do OK, and they have a niche, I can go to a place that satisfies me and both markets can be happy. Of course, the typical gnatzie doesn't like the market working, they think the government should create the markets............

(Just letting them see what their postings actually look like!)

[SheLion]

My breakfast place will not go out of business without me but I'm a big tipper and the waitress will notice the difference.

The same with me. I enjoy tipping well for good service. But they didn't stand up to fight to keep my business, so I will no longer be feeding my money into theirs. It's a crying shame with the economy so bad, that the lawmakers felt the need to do this. I have no answers for this.

[SheLion]

Its pathetic how political tobacco and smoking have become. They have turned a lot of the general non smokers against us. They have turned children against smoking parents just by attending school.

The liquor industry stood up to the government back in the days of prohibition and today they are living the good life. Even though alcoholism is killing off a lot of people........through liver or drunk driving. But do you hear of anyone in here trying to ban alcohol and drinking? Nope, I don't either.

Big Tobacco fell to their knees in front of the Attorney Generals, and now here we sit. Maybe I will take up drinking. heh!

Some people in here say my second hand smoke is killing them. Do they really believe this and have they been brain washed so terribly by the anti's?

I would STILL rather pass a smoker on the HWY anyday then a drinker. Wouldn't you?

[CSM]

Don't worry, when the state coffers begin to see the decline a tax increase will be put in place to ensure that they get that money from you after all! First ruin the market with government control, then increase dependent on government, finally take from one to give to another!

And the circle continues!