[Mr. Silverback]

The Kurdish attack was terrible, but it occured 15 years ago, not this past April.

Two things: The mass grave wasn't from the 1988 Halabjah attack. It was much more recent. Also,I wasn't saying, "The war was justified to avenge the Kurds," I was using the mass grave thing as an example of why peaceful means simply would not have succeeded with Hussein, and it was obvious that they wouldn't.

I agree that humanitarian justification for war would have the Pope endorsing the invasion of a minimum of 20 countries, and probably the PRC would be on that list. But then, I've never really argued the humanitarian reason for war; I brought it up here with you to illustrate the futility of peaceful means in this case, and I bring it up with real peaceniks to puncture their bloated sense of moral superiority. The real reason to go in was terror training camps and WMD, and either one alone justified the invasion.

The Pope is really a spiritual figure, not a political one.

True, but as usual, spiritual things have great consequences in the real world, and JPII helped bring down the Warsaw Pact, for Pete's sake. Also, consider the situation in this case: The main advocates of military action are a Catholic (Blair) and a strongly vocal professing Christian (Bush). One of the nations that is sending combat troops is the Pope's home country, a nation that is almost 100% Catholic. This Pope is known for his stands against tyrants, and he runs the segment of Christianity that birthed the Just War doctrine. If he says, "Nope, doesn't fit," that has enormous political consequences.

Of course the Pope should press for peace whenever possible. But to say that those who took Hussein down would have grave spiritual consequences...does that mean SWAT teams are going to Hell en masse?

[B-Chan]

FYI: Prime Minister Blair of the UK is not himself a Catholic. He is married to a Catholic woman.

[RobbyS]

I think the Vatican's oppostion to the war was based on their appreciation that militant Islam is spreading its message of hate everywhere in the world. The liberals in the West, of course, are so beguiled by their outdated--and condescending--view of Islam that they don't realize what we are up against. It may seem like wild view, but one of these days we may have to expell Muslims from our territories. send them back to Muslim countries just as they are expelling Christians. The liberals have the idea that they can convert Muslims to their values. (This is why they so loudly denounce the Baptists for trying to convert Muslims to Christianity). But if democratization doesn't work in Iraq, then it would work with the Muslims in our country.