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To: Bidimus1

Madison:

“It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.”

I think the guy who wrote the thing, knew what the words meant...

“...place is the most certain criterion; it IS WHAT APPLIES IN THE UNITED STATES.”

Why? Because place contributes to attachment. The Framers wanted someone imbued with natural patriotic fervor. THEREFORE PLACE MATTERS.


103 posted on 02/25/2015 1:31:56 PM PST by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell.)
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To: HMS Surprise
I think the guy who wrote the thing, knew what the words meant...

Yes he did. To Madison it meant the same as it meant to William Blackstone; that it was locale that decided loyalty and not the parents. Natural born citizens are citizens born in the country of citizenship, regardless of whether their parents are citizens or not. Congress has expanded that definition to include people born outside the U.S. of citizen parents as long as the parents met certain requirements. But all is in keeping with the Constitution's determination that there are two forms of citizenship only.

104 posted on 02/25/2015 1:45:17 PM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: HMS Surprise

Congrats you managed a little research. but did a poor job of understanding, in that the snippet you choose is not what it seems.

(for those that wish to read the entire letter from madison)
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_2_2s6.html

but the short of it is that the issue at hand was the

Madison states that IF South Carolina had laws on this issue they would guide the decision on Smith.

“It were to be wished, that we had some law adduced more precisely defining the qualities of a citizen or an alien; particular laws of this kind, have obtained in some of the states; if such a law existed in South-Carolina, it might have prevented this question from ever coming before us; but since this has not been the case, let us settle some general principles before we proceed to the presumptive proof arising from public measures under the law, which tend to give support to the inference drawn from such principles.

The Paragraph you edited (do you work for CBS ?) continues...

it is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other. Mr. Smith founds his claim upon his birthright; his ancestors were among the first settlers of that colony.

Since Madison states that there is no need to “investigate any other” that presupposes that there are “other”

Note also that the term “in general” by its use means that it is NOT the only method (as the paragraph states parentage).

Note the word Sometimes “derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage”

Your blinders are to tight you may want to have them checked out.


106 posted on 02/25/2015 1:54:51 PM PST by Bidimus1
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To: HMS Surprise

James Madison, “The Father of the Constitution” became a dual U.S. and French citizen having accepted French citizenship. I don’t think you’re going to find too many people who question the patriotism of the 4th President.

RC (DLC: Madison Papers); endorsed by TJ as received 6 June 1793 and so recorded in SJL. Enclosure: Madison to Jean Marie Roland de La Platière, French Minister of the Interior, April 1793, gratefully accepting the French citizenship conferred on him by the Legislative Assembly on 26 Aug. 1792, and avowing his wishes for the prosperity and glory of the French nation and the victory of liberty over the minds of its opponents (Dft in same; printed in Madison, Papers, xv, 4).
In recognition of their services to liberty, the Legislative Assembly in August 1792 bestowed French citizenship on three Americans, Madison, George Washington, and Alexander Hamilton—the last two of whom did not respond to the award—as well as on a number of European supporters of the French Revolution (Archives Parlementaires, 1st ser., xlix, 10).
http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-26-02-0129


113 posted on 02/26/2015 7:16:43 PM PST by Nero Germanicus (PALIN/CRUZ: 2016)
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