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To: MamaTexan
This was the legal state of this subject in Virginia, when the federal constitution was adopted; it declares that congress shall have power to establish an uniform rule of naturalization; throughout the United States; but it also further declares, that the powers not delegated by the constitution to the United States, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states, respectively or to the people.

The federal government has the ability to make a uniform rule for naturalization ONLY.

I certainly agree that Congress did not have the power to define the status of those born citizens in the United States.

Note what Tucker says: This was the legal state of the subject in Virginia when the Constitution was adopted.

The United States already existed at that time. It existed after 1776 and before 1787.

And the situation in Virginia was the exact same as the situation in ALL the States. Natural born citizens were determined by the common law rule that had ALWAYS been in force.

The Constitution did not change that rule, and it didn't give Congress the power to change it.

So the same rule applied before the Constitution, and it applies now.

just as Vattel said The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.

Except he DIDN'T say that. he never mentioned natural born citizens at all. That was a mistranslation 10 years after the Constitution was written.

Even if he had, he was speaking for himself and Switzerland, NOT england and the US.

244 posted on 03/18/2013 4:37:47 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: Jeff Winston; MamaTexan
And the situation in Virginia was the exact same as the situation in ALL the States. Natural born citizens were determined by the common law rule that had ALWAYS been in force.

The Constitution did not change that rule, and it didn't give Congress the power to change it.

So the same rule applied before the Constitution, and it applies now.

Incidentally, at least two courts have specifically declared that this was the situation.

Chancellor Sandford, in Lyncy v. Clarke (1844) said this was exactly the situation. The Supreme Court confirmed Sandford's ruling, at the national level, in 1898 in US v. Wong Kim Ark.

Once again, that Court said the same rule had always applied. First, in England. Then, in the Colonies. Then, in the United States after the Revolution. Then, in the United States after the Constitution was established.

Elsewhere, I went into some detail about the ruling in US v. Wong Kim Ark. You need to read that post. Because not only does it represent an ACCURATE reading of that case, it also represents the reading of that case that is accepted by every significant legal authority in history since that time.

So in other words, it is both CLEAR and (except for a few birthers, almost all of whom have no real legal expertise) UNIVERSALLY RECOGNIZED that this understanding of US v. Wong Kim Ark is correct.

As for your two other quotes:

"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

“[I] find no fault with the introductory clause, which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen. . . . ” John A. Bingham

Once again, you do what birthers always do: Take evidence that SEEMS to support your case, and present it as "definitive."

Both quotes misrepresent what the people who said them understood natural born citizens to be.

The debates in Congress had to do with making sure black people born in America had the rights of natural born citizens that they were due as natural born citizen. The same rights that white people born here had.

Indians in tribes had never been recognized as citizens, and they needed some language to exclude those people, and the traditional exceptions of children of ambassadors and invading armies.

When Sen. Howard said, "This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons," it is clear that he was simply restating three things that meant the same thing:

foreigners,

aliens,

who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.

This wasn't a list of 3 different things. But you and other birthers misread it and claim that it was.

As for John Bingham, why don't you give his other quote:

“Who are natural-born citizens but those born within the Republic? Those born within the Republic, whether black or white, are citizens by birth — natural born citizens.”

Bingham clearly states that natural born citizens are those who are CITIZENS BY BIRTH.

245 posted on 03/18/2013 5:55:46 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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