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To: BenKenobi
never about personal autonomy or ‘self rule’. It was about personal responsibility

You can't be responsible for what you don't control.

I strongly disagree with you. Personal autonomy is REQUIRED for truly righteous behavior.

Otherwise, it's just following the rules on pain of punishment.

God gave us our will. Who is the government, or you, to try to restrain God's gift?

/johnny

35 posted on 01/19/2012 9:52:39 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: JRandomFreeper

More history on this country and the right to be left alone - it is one of the foundational ideas. Terrible public schools have taught us that we are slave to the state, but that was not the founder’s intention.

RIGHTS OF MAN
TO BE LEFT ALONE (quotes)
 
Because of the diverse conditions of humans, it happens that some acts are virtuous to some people, as appropriate and suitable to them, while the same acts are immoral for others, as inappropriate to them.
AQUINAS, ST. THOMAS, Summa Theologica

[The] right to be let alone - the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.
BRANDEIS, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE LOUIS, Olmstead v. United States, 277 U.S. 479 (1928)

The right to be let alone is indeed the beginning of all freedom.
DOUGLAS, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE WILLIAM O., Public Utilities Commission v. Pollack

The care of every man’s soul belongs to himself. But what if he neglect the care of it? Well what if he neglect the care of his health or his estate, which would more nearly relate to the state. Will the magistrate make a law that he not be poor or sick? Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves. God himself will not save men against their wills.
JEFFERSON, THOMAS, October 1776

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
JEFFERSON, THOMAS, Bill for Religious Freedom, 1779

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
LEWIS, C.S.

I believe that every individual is naturally entitled to do as he pleases with himself and the fruits of his labor, so far as it in no way interferes with any other men’s rights.
LINCOLN, ABRAHAM

The only part of the conduct of any one, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others... Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.
MILL, JOHN STUART, On Liberty, Chapter 1

[Extending] the bounds of what may be called moral police, until it encroaches on the most unquestionably legitimate liberty of the individual, is one of the most universal of all human propensities.
MILL, JOHN STUART, On Liberty, Chapter 4

America wasn’t founded so that we could all be better. America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
 O’ROURKE, P.J.

One of the most essential branches of English liberty is the freedom of one’s house. A man’s house is his castle; and whilst he is quiet, he is as well guarded as a prince in his castle.
OTIS, JAMES, Against the Writs of Assistance, Boston, 1761, quoted in Orators of America by Guy Carleton Lee (New York: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 1900)

It is not the responsibility of the government or the legal system to protect a citizen from himself.
PERCELL, U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE CASEY

Call it tolerance, call it respect: it is the mark of a free society that individuals are left free to pursue their own values, however wise or foolish, however enlightened or benighted, however pleasing or offensive to others.
PILON, ROGER, The Right to Do Wrong

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
RAND, AYN, The Fountainhead

[H]ow many tobacco smokers resort to theft and prostitution in order to support their habit? Yet clinical studies have shown that tobacco is more habit forming than heroin.
REDFORD, JAMES, Government Causes the Crime, Part I

Now what I contend is that my body is my own, at least I have always so regarded it. If I do harm through my experimenting with it, it is I who suffers, not the state.
TWAIN, MARK, Quoted in Mark Twain Speaking, University of Iowa Press, 1976:384-8

Liberty exists in proportion to wholesome restraint; the more restraint on others to keep off from us, the more liberty we have.
WEBSTER, DANIEL, Speech at the Charleston Bar Dinner, May 10, 1847

Why doesn’t everybody leave everybody else the hell alone?
DURANTE, JIMMY
 


47 posted on 01/19/2012 10:03:36 PM PST by LibertyLA (fighting libtards and other giant government enablers!)
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To: JRandomFreeper

“You can’t be responsible for what you don’t control.”

Newsflash, no one has full control over themselves and their own actions. People make mistakes. You are held responsible even if you lose control. Losing control is not an excuse for bad behaviour, unless you believe that getting drunk is a pass.

“I strongly disagree with you. Personal autonomy is REQUIRED for truly righteous behavior.”

No, it’s not. See, you cannot have God in your life, if you believe that you rule yourself. Personal autonomy is anathema to any sort of Faith - where you give yourself over to God.

The Founders were religious men. So was America. Your argument would consign religion to a closet, that one could simply pick it up when you leave the temple, and put it away.

It’s also the argument that Kennedy used to explain away his faith - that his faith was not the guiding influence on his life and his actions.

If that’s what you believe that America is about - you are grossly mistaken. Again, America has never espoused that ideology. America has always argued that the individual and the community must be in balance with one another.

Communism, where the individual is expunged is no less wrong than Anarchism, where the community is expunged. Both are wrong.

“God gave us our will. Who is the government, or you, to try to restrain God’s gift?”

And if God gave you your will, then you are not your own, and personal autonomy is a lie. You belong to Him. Not yourself. You do not rule you, God does.


50 posted on 01/19/2012 10:04:59 PM PST by BenKenobi (Vindicated! Santorum wins IOWA!)
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To: JRandomFreeper
Personal autonomy is REQUIRED for truly righteous behavior.

WELL SAID. And supported in the New Testament in the Gospel of Jesus Chris.

158 posted on 01/20/2012 12:45:32 AM PST by Finny ("Raise hell. Vote smart." -- Ted Nugent)
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