Replies

Oh, Capebuffalo, I had such hopes for you from what you wrote in #12. Disrespectful terms like "cafeteria Christian" are exactly the sort of thing responsible for the deep divisions we are experiencing. If that's what I am, then there are an awful lot of us out here.

We will not achieve the reconciliation we badly need in this country unless we recognize that words have tremendous power and choose them very carefully so as to avoid exacerbating the problem. In an attempt to sound witty and "right" we often write more harshly than necessary to make our point - I have been guilty of it at times, but I'm trying to refrain from it now - I invite you to do the same. If we need to vent, we should maybe do it somewhere else.

We really must learn to accept that many, many people see things differently than we do, no matter which "side" we are on, and yet we are all, every one of us, first and foremost Americans. No, we don't all hold the same values, but we don't always have to. Heck, when I was growing up in east Tennessee, even the Baptists and Presbyterians tended to look down their noses at each other in disdain out of disagreement over scriptural interpretation, so it will hardly help to engage in debate over issues like abortion and same-sex marriage. I doubt either of us would be persuaded.

One of our most precious rights is freedom of religion - you believe as you do, and I respect your right to do so. I respectfully request that you return the favor. We may not be able to understand how someone can see things so differently and consider their POV legitimate, but we simply must accept that they do, that they have a right to do so and learn to agree to disagree in ways that are respectful. If we don't, then we will continue on this very destructive path as a society.

Please remember that in my earlier post I wasn't defending either President Bush or Sen. Kerry as to their military service, I was criticizing those who sought to destroy their credibility by attacking their service record. I rarely take at face value what I read in books that are written by people with an ax to grind. The very fact that they have one discredits their words unless they are entirely documented with uncontrovertible proof.

Did Kerry make some big mistakes? Probably, but he had reasons he considered entirely loyal as an American soldier and veteran at the time. I can respect that. Did President Bush do his ivy-league white-bread best to get out of having to serve more than he did? Probably, but maybe he thought he had done his share already. I can respect that, too. Regardless, they served, and that is worth a lot to my mind. They were both much younger at the time, and neither has been in a position to speak candidly about how they really thought and felt at the time and how that might differ from their position today. I know my point of view has matured considerably since I was a young adult, and I imagine theirs have as well. I'm willing to forgive both for that reason.

Polygirl

Polygirl:
Sorry you took exception to my suggesting that you were a cafeteria Christian. Most of us are!The problem that I find difficult to reconcile, is the hypocrisy. How Can one profess to be a Christian and be pro choice and for same sex marriage? The CHOICE was to have unprotected sex, knowing that you can abort the unwanted result.That's not only irresponsible, but flies in the face of the God we profess to believe in. Interesting, Scott Peterson was found guilty of 2nd degree murder of an unborn child(fetus?)
As for same sex marriage, its an oxymoron, marriage is the basic structure of our society. If two people of the same sex want to commit together, they can form a domestic partnership. There are legal documents that can assure hospital visitation, living wills,etc. The major problem is transfer of wealth and tax issues that can and will be addressed without having to denigrate the state of marriage. It's the ramming it down our throats that we resent, moral issues aside. As for kerry, please read Unfit For Command. He did give comfort to the enemy. The actions of Kerry, Fonda(she did apologize) helped not only extend the war(Incidentally, the only war we ever lost)But to this day he denigrated the lives of the heros who lie in the Fields of Vietnam and all the vets of Vietnam, many of whom still walk the streets of our cities, homeless, confused "baby killers" as portrayed by Mr. Kerry and his ILK.

After we left Vietnam, over 3 million Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians were slaughtered because they supported us.That's the legacy of the rich and powerful Senator Kerry. I would trust that you would not want to see this country become a socialist state. That's where the Leftest leaders of the Democratic Party want to take us.
The educational system in major cities is in crisis. A guy like Bill Cosby recognizes what's happening to the minority children. Since most major cities are controlled by Democrats, that's got to tell you something. Isn't there something wrong when over 50% of newborns are born out of wedlock? / Isn't there something wrong when Washington D.C. has the highest crime rate in the nation?
These are some of our issues. We're not intolerant , it's just that we see this great nation going downhill fast and we're trying to reverse the tide. It's going to take more than dialog. Where do you think the members of the Communists & Socialist Party have gone?. Read David Horowitz's book Left Illusions. David was a former Communist activist in the 60's.
David said that you can't have a dialog with those people. Think about it! would you rather have leaders who are God fearing people or godless people. What do you want for your children and grandchildren? It's really that simple!. all the rest is political smoke and mirrors. Have a good night! By the way a group of us are exploring the development of a global website for international dialog. It's in the early stages of development. I'll keep you posted.

polygirl said:"Did Kerry make some big mistakes? Probably, but he had reasons he considered entirely loyal as an American soldier and veteran at the time."

Mistakes? I'm hoping this is an effort to be fair and balanced and not truly what you would call the truth about John Kerry's so-called "service" to this country. It's about the truth, it's about decency, it's about someone running for President of the United States telling the truth and saying what they mean and meaning what they say.

While I respect your right to have your opinion, you appear to be very ill-informed regarding Kerry's military service. There have been many excellent points in this forum made regarding this issue, but there is one that hasn't been mentioned. John Kerry chose to leave said service after at most 4 months of duty. He, at the time, was in a leadership position. Due to an injury that required nothing more than a band-aid, he chose to take the option of leaving after receiving 3 purple hearts -- Purple hearts attained under questionable conditions I might add. You may question or dispute some of what I said here, however, what is not in dispute is: 1) John Kerry left his own soldiers to finish out a tour in Viet Nam he and chose not to complete his tour 2) All soldiers who served under him completed their tours. 3) He then testified against these and all the soldiers he left in Viet Nam with manufactured claims of atrocities.

So to be clear: when Kerry left Viet Nam, he left ALL of the soldiers who served with him and UNDER HIS DIRECT COMMAND behind. Every last one finished at least their 18 month duty term (or more). Not John Kerry however.

Wouldn't this then shed light on his ability to be a leader -- something key and essential I think anyone with any sense would agree, when attempting to become President of the United States? While this all happened many decades ago, Kerry has used his military service in an unabashed political way all through his political career, including his run for president. He made this his entire platform at the Democratic National Convention, using military terminology and only referring to his Senate career for a few minutes (literally). He told us (the American people) to look at him in regards to his past military service. Apparently in an attempt to "prove" what a great leader he is. Well, he failed the test miserably. He has lied about his service, and to this moment has not released all of his military records which would have put to rest -- or lend credence -- to the Swift Boat Vets claims.

Then to show an even more despicable side to Kerry, he allowed attacks about the President's service in the National Guard to go under attack when the President already released all of his records!

Added to this, Kerry lied about many things, and that includes the things he said about George Bush on the campaign trail.

How you can possibly compare the two campaigns is totally beyond my understanding. When did President Bush lie about John Kerry? When did President Bush lie about Kerry's record or lack-there-of? When did President Bush lie? Please state three lies for me because I'm unaware of them. I can tell you three lies I heard out of Kerry's lips -- There were no WMD's - George Bush mislead the American people -- it is another Viet Nam/a mess/a disaster in Iraq.

Those are just a few of the blatant lies.

It is as if we witnessed two entirely different realities regarding this election. John Kerry acted despicably when he left his soldiers behind in Viet Nam. THEN he turned around and lied under oath calling those same soldiers war criminals. How can you or anyone possibly compare the character of George Bush or their campaigns to one another? It's about truth, it's about honor, it's about integrity.

Lastly -- re: Gay marriage. Most Americans do not want the institution of marriage changed. While your concern is that we must all "try to get along" that is absolutely impossible. This country must base it's principles upon what is right and wrong, and understandably, not everyone will agree with these right and wrongs.

However, there actually are some ultimate truths. As a Christian, I believe these truths to be straight out of the Bible and I furthermore believe that this country was founded upon Judeo/Christian/Biblical values. Marriage between anyone other than one man and one woman is wrong. The American people have spoken and do not want lawmakers imposing their personal interpretation of legal issues upon the rest of us.

Americans have spoken and they want a President who tells us the truth, shoots straight from the hip, and says what he means and means what he says.

If someone disagrees with me, or what the American people obviously voted for, that's one of the things that makes this country great. We can disagree, we can go to the polls and vote about what we agree or disagree about and we can freely assemble with those who agree with us. But to attempt to compare the viciousness of the Kerry campaign to the campaign of President Bush is to me, not seeing reality.

Just FYI -- I'm an Army wife of over 25 years -- and it would have been a travesty if John Kerry had been the Commander in Chief -- it would have been a total nightmare. Thanks be to God for answered prayer.